5 ms·

> Police believe that when James Rogers got into the vehicle, a cable became loose and cut off the power to the operate the horn and locks. Rogers did not know

by judge2020 5y ago

> Police believe that when James Rogers got into the vehicle, a cable became loose and cut off the power to the operate the horn and locks. Rogers did not know how to manually unlock the vehicle and became trapped inside > the 2007 Corvette has a manual release located on the floorboard by the driver's seat Having random cables cut doesn't help the situation, but the issue was not knowing how to manually release the latch and not having an emergency window breaker.

comeonseriously 5y ago
> Having random cables cut doesn't help the situation, but the issue was not knowing how to manually release the latch and not having an emergency window breaker. Is it, is that really the issue?
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  It was certainly an issue. If you have a bright red override lever on the door, then they would have known and not had a problem.
wikibob 5y ago
This is absurd victim blaming. The problem is there is a door handle that is designed with a failure mode such that pulling the handle DOES NOT OPEN THE DOOR.
- rabuse 5y ago
  Exactly. Couldn't they just have some system where the door handles have a magnetic dead-switch, that reverts to manual operation when no power is applied?
  - brokenmachine 5y ago
    The battery might not have enough juice to unlock the doors, but still not be completely dead. Of course with good design that shouldn't be a problem.
- seanp2k2 5y ago
  I agree; it's like all the rollaway accidents that happen now because of electronic shifters: https://www.safetyresearch.net/the-persistence-of-rollaway/ https://www.safetyresearch.net/the-persistence-of-rollaway/ Design matters, and bad designs can literally be deadly. Why auto mfgs feel the need to "innovate" with shifter designs is beyond me. The worst part is how every mfg seems to be implementing a different design of bad electronic shifters, from wheels and touchscreens to one-click-at-a-time joysticks to single-function pushbuttons for some gears with others on a scroll wheel. They've taken something and made it worse with no benefit to the user. At least with those auto-flushing toilets, the intention was good, even if the implementation is still somehow so awful decades later.
  - aidenn0 5y ago
    I drove a rental with a rotary-dial shifter. That is the single most braindead UX thing I've seen in a car that doesn't involve a touch-screen. We've had PRND(L) levers as the standard for shifting in automatics for over 50 years now, and the dial offers no advantages that I can see.
    - derekp7 5y ago
      My Ford Fusion has one of those rotary dials. Didn't like it at first, but it is nice having that air space free (not able to accidentally knock it out of gear, more room for an extra cup holder). Also the cars with a physical gear shift lever still work by activating switches, there hasn't been mechanical linkage for years in a lot of models.
    - selimthegrim 5y ago
      Pray tell what make and model this was so I can run as fast as my legs can take me in the opposite direction if Hertz tries to palm one off on me
      - devilbunny 5y ago
        I rented a Ford Edge two months ago that had one. It was quite distracting. At the end of a week, I still hadn't internalized how it worked. I had to think about it every time. On my old Chevrolet Tahoe, I can tell what gear I just shifted into by feel (shifting into D, it has a slight tendency to overshoot the normal overdrive mode and end up locked into 3rd). And of course, this is essentially a nonissue on manual transmissions.
- tw04 5y ago
  But the handle DOES open the door. It’s just at your feet, quite clearly marked, instead of physically on the door. It’s specifically there so that if you are in an accident you can still release the door. It’s designed With the idea the car will see a road course and is far superior to a handle on the door. It’s sad he died but I found that handle in the first 5 minutes of owning my first corvette. It has a giant red picture of the door opening.
  - Symbiote 5y ago
    When you're half dazed from a collision and the car is on fire, will your scared but unhurt 11 year old son know where this hidden lever is? I did, on a 1980s car, since it was the normal door handle.
    - tw04 5y ago
      Hidden? It’s directly below where the “oh shit” handle is on the door, you need to move your hand less than 6” to pull it. Calling it hidden is completely misrepresenting reality. If my 7 year old knows where it is and insists on using it to open the door, I hope your 11 year old can figure it out.
      - salawat 5y ago
        Principe of least surprise. Humans expect tools to be at arm height. Do not work against natural assumptions. If you increase cognitive load, that's that much more attention diverted in a state where attention is already maxed out or otherwise in shortage. It can be the difference between life and death.
      - Symbiote 5y ago
        From [1], I see it's a discreet, black lever with a small picture of a door opening. It perhaps is about 6" away, but in a space almost always obscured by ones legs. Emergency controls in vehicles with proper regulation look like this [2], so they can still be used in the dark, with smoke, etc. [1] https://hhcorvettenewsletter.wordpress.com/2016/08/03/dont-let-this-happen-to-you-or-your-loved-ones-in-your-corvette/ https://hhcorvettenewsletter.wordpress.com/2016/08/03/dont-l... [2] https://railgallery.wongm.com/gold-coast-light-rail/F122_9298.jpg.html https://railgallery.wongm.com/gold-coast-light-rail/F122_929...
bumby 5y ago
The elements you're referring to are procedural mitigations to a poor design from a human factors standpoint. Those mitigations are always less preferred than managing those risks from an engineering perspective. OSHA actually outlines the preference: 1) Eliminate the hazard outright (not possible here, you need the door to lock sometimes) 2) Engineer out the risk (they tried to do...poorly...with the manual unlock) 3) Administrative controls (e.g., the manual) 4) Personal protective equipment
sokoloff 5y ago
> not having an emergency window breaker. Tip for readers: if your car has removable headrests, they can serve effectively as emergency window breakers.
- dghlsakjg 5y ago
  I’ve seen this tip pop up a few times, but it is worth noting that the way to break a window isn’t to hit it with the metal bits. You have to insert the metal rod between the bottom of the window and the door card and use leverage to pry at the window until it cracks
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
"manual release located on the floorboard by the driver's seat" I am willing to bet my house that half the people who built that car would not find the lever if it suddenly caught fire (or any other emergency) while they are in it
phkahler 5y ago
>> Having random cables cut doesn't help the situation It was the battery cable or similar, which cut power to all the electronic means of getting out - including the other door. It was not "cut" in the sense of someone using a knife, it just came loose or similarly broke contact. This is a design failure, not a RTFM failure.

comeonseriously 5y ago

> Having random cables cut doesn't help the situation, but the issue was not knowing how to manually release the latch and not having an emergency window breaker. Is it, is that really the issue?

s1artibartfast 5y ago
It was certainly an issue. If you have a bright red override lever on the door, then they would have known and not had a problem.

wikibob 5y ago

This is absurd victim blaming. The problem is there is a door handle that is designed with a failure mode such that pulling the handle DOES NOT OPEN THE DOOR.

rabuse 5y ago
Exactly. Couldn't they just have some system where the door handles have a magnetic dead-switch, that reverts to manual operation when no power is applied?
- brokenmachine 5y ago
  The battery might not have enough juice to unlock the doors, but still not be completely dead. Of course with good design that shouldn't be a problem.
seanp2k2 5y ago
I agree; it's like all the rollaway accidents that happen now because of electronic shifters: https://www.safetyresearch.net/the-persistence-of-rollaway/ https://www.safetyresearch.net/the-persistence-of-rollaway/ Design matters, and bad designs can literally be deadly. Why auto mfgs feel the need to "innovate" with shifter designs is beyond me. The worst part is how every mfg seems to be implementing a different design of bad electronic shifters, from wheels and touchscreens to one-click-at-a-time joysticks to single-function pushbuttons for some gears with others on a scroll wheel. They've taken something and made it worse with no benefit to the user. At least with those auto-flushing toilets, the intention was good, even if the implementation is still somehow so awful decades later.
- aidenn0 5y ago
  I drove a rental with a rotary-dial shifter. That is the single most braindead UX thing I've seen in a car that doesn't involve a touch-screen. We've had PRND(L) levers as the standard for shifting in automatics for over 50 years now, and the dial offers no advantages that I can see.
  - derekp7 5y ago
    My Ford Fusion has one of those rotary dials. Didn't like it at first, but it is nice having that air space free (not able to accidentally knock it out of gear, more room for an extra cup holder). Also the cars with a physical gear shift lever still work by activating switches, there hasn't been mechanical linkage for years in a lot of models.
  - selimthegrim 5y ago
    Pray tell what make and model this was so I can run as fast as my legs can take me in the opposite direction if Hertz tries to palm one off on me
    - devilbunny 5y ago
      I rented a Ford Edge two months ago that had one. It was quite distracting. At the end of a week, I still hadn't internalized how it worked. I had to think about it every time. On my old Chevrolet Tahoe, I can tell what gear I just shifted into by feel (shifting into D, it has a slight tendency to overshoot the normal overdrive mode and end up locked into 3rd). And of course, this is essentially a nonissue on manual transmissions.
tw04 5y ago
But the handle DOES open the door. It’s just at your feet, quite clearly marked, instead of physically on the door. It’s specifically there so that if you are in an accident you can still release the door. It’s designed With the idea the car will see a road course and is far superior to a handle on the door. It’s sad he died but I found that handle in the first 5 minutes of owning my first corvette. It has a giant red picture of the door opening.
- Symbiote 5y ago
  When you're half dazed from a collision and the car is on fire, will your scared but unhurt 11 year old son know where this hidden lever is? I did, on a 1980s car, since it was the normal door handle.
  - tw04 5y ago
    Hidden? It’s directly below where the “oh shit” handle is on the door, you need to move your hand less than 6” to pull it. Calling it hidden is completely misrepresenting reality. If my 7 year old knows where it is and insists on using it to open the door, I hope your 11 year old can figure it out.
    - salawat 5y ago
      Principe of least surprise. Humans expect tools to be at arm height. Do not work against natural assumptions. If you increase cognitive load, that's that much more attention diverted in a state where attention is already maxed out or otherwise in shortage. It can be the difference between life and death.
    - Symbiote 5y ago
      From [1], I see it's a discreet, black lever with a small picture of a door opening. It perhaps is about 6" away, but in a space almost always obscured by ones legs. Emergency controls in vehicles with proper regulation look like this [2], so they can still be used in the dark, with smoke, etc. [1] https://hhcorvettenewsletter.wordpress.com/2016/08/03/dont-let-this-happen-to-you-or-your-loved-ones-in-your-corvette/ https://hhcorvettenewsletter.wordpress.com/2016/08/03/dont-l... [2] https://railgallery.wongm.com/gold-coast-light-rail/F122_9298.jpg.html https://railgallery.wongm.com/gold-coast-light-rail/F122_929...

bumby 5y ago

The elements you're referring to are procedural mitigations to a poor design from a human factors standpoint. Those mitigations are always less preferred than managing those risks from an engineering perspective. OSHA actually outlines the preference: 1) Eliminate the hazard outright (not possible here, you need the door to lock sometimes) 2) Engineer out the risk (they tried to do...poorly...with the manual unlock) 3) Administrative controls (e.g., the manual) 4) Personal protective equipment

sokoloff 5y ago

> not having an emergency window breaker. Tip for readers: if your car has removable headrests, they can serve effectively as emergency window breakers.

dghlsakjg 5y ago
I’ve seen this tip pop up a few times, but it is worth noting that the way to break a window isn’t to hit it with the metal bits. You have to insert the metal rod between the bottom of the window and the door card and use leverage to pry at the window until it cracks

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

"manual release located on the floorboard by the driver's seat" I am willing to bet my house that half the people who built that car would not find the lever if it suddenly caught fire (or any other emergency) while they are in it

phkahler 5y ago

>> Having random cables cut doesn't help the situation It was the battery cable or similar, which cut power to all the electronic means of getting out - including the other door. It was not "cut" in the sense of someone using a knife, it just came loose or similarly broke contact. This is a design failure, not a RTFM failure.