5 ms·

Even if you get Google employees to see (which you almost certainly have now), it's frustratingly difficult to escalate this sort of issue internally. While I w

by iamevn 5y ago

Even if you get Google employees to see (which you almost certainly have now), it's frustratingly difficult to escalate this sort of issue internally. While I worked at Google (not in YouTube) I'd tried to escelate this sort of issue on several occasions and gotten absolutely nowhere. It really seems like the only way to get help is to go viral and raise enough of a stink that they're forced to help. I wasn't even able to get my one of my best friends' access to their account restored when they had all the correct info and the automated account recovery form was breaking with absolutely useless error messages.

tmaly 5y ago
maybe there needs to be a new service to help the little guy? Bring back some form of the Don't be Evil
- spaniard89277 5y ago
  It won't happen unless they're forced to do so, or a competitor arises. But competing with YT is nearly impossible. Maybe YTubers should start talking about some sort of association.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    > Maybe YTubers should start talking about some sort of association. Like some sort of union of workers with similar interests?
    - nickff 5y ago
      It seems like this would be more of a cartel.
      - ethbr0 5y ago
        Because producing creative videos is a limited resource than can be cornered?
        root_axis 5y ago
        Because creators have a business relationship with YouTube, not an employment one.
  - syshum 5y ago
    There have been a few attempts. It never goes anywhere and never will
    - johnisgood 5y ago
      This attitude is one of the reasons for why it will not go anywhere though. There are plenty of alternatives for YouTube. I think the problem is that there are actually way too many. We need only ONE replacement, and it has to get popular enough. The reason I am saying that we need only one replacement is that I do not expect creators to upload their videos to 100 different YouTube-likes.
- Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
  It doesn't scale. That's the problem and why moderation is so difficult. It's incredibly difficult to scale. Anything that allows people to appeal negative actions will be abused by bad actors. Spend some time on the League of Legends or World of Warcraft forums or subreddits and you'll see people claiming to have been suspended or banned for no reason, until eventually a moderator or CS rep will come in and say "Actually you were banned because you spammed racial slurs in the game and told a teammate to kill themselves." Now imagine how many people put copyrighted music in their YouTube and afterwards appeal the inevitable copyright strikes on their video because they think it somehow falls under fair use or think putting "No copyright infringement intended" in the description absolves themselves of any wrong-doing.
  - logicalmonster 5y ago
    People have suggested that this can be solved by Big Tech charging money for premium support in some fashion. It's not a perfect solution, but it would weed out the most frivolous and unimportant claims and make supporting the desperate people manageable.
    - jedberg 5y ago
      That would be terrible PR for them though. "YouTube banned me just so they could take my money to get help!" "Only rich people can get their YouTube accounts unbanned!" and so on.
      - root_axis 5y ago
        This could be partially mitigated if the fee behaved more like a deposit, but overall I agree, Google has no incentive to go down this route, especially because taking people's money who are already upset with you is a recipe for legal headache.
        muzani 5y ago
        Well, there are startups that take a deposit and then ban people for getting lower than 4.5 star ratings. They keep the deposit, even when the account is unbanned.
- wing-_-nuts 5y ago
  I bought a pixel this year with a $100 discount for signing up for google fi. Turns out, their map is a lie, and I was completely without coverage, so I sign up with my old provider. I then get a nastygram saying I'm going to be charged the full $100 because I cancelled google fi. $50 more than the non promo price. I honestly started to do a chargeback on the promo charge, but I guarantee you I'd lose access to all google services because of a tos violation if I did that. Lesson learned. Never do business with a monopoly provider, you have no recourse.
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    I always felt giving your credit card to google for anything was a terrible idea. Privacy aside. A company with terrible support should never be allowed direct access to your credit card.
  - otterley 5y ago
    Did you return the phone within 15 days?
    - wing-_-nuts 5y ago
      The carriers are starting to turn off service to 3g, and older 4g devices at the end of this year. I couldn't guarantee that I'd be able to get another phone like I needed, so I'm coughing up the $100, and I'm simply resolving to never trust google with my money again. Having them claim that I'm violating their promotion because they can't deliver the service promised by their coverage map is infuriating.
      - otterley 5y ago
        The point of the 15 day return policy is to give you enough time to try their service, and if it doesn’t work for you, for whatever reason, to send the equipment back and cancel service. If you didn’t do that on time, well, that’s on you. You can’t have it both ways, to keep the equipment and get the discount while not using their service. That’s simply not what you agreed to. No carrier would let you do that.

by iamevn 5y ago

tmaly 5y ago

maybe there needs to be a new service to help the little guy? Bring back some form of the Don't be Evil

spaniard89277 5y ago
It won't happen unless they're forced to do so, or a competitor arises. But competing with YT is nearly impossible. Maybe YTubers should start talking about some sort of association.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  > Maybe YTubers should start talking about some sort of association. Like some sort of union of workers with similar interests?
  - nickff 5y ago
    It seems like this would be more of a cartel.
    - ethbr0 5y ago
      Because producing creative videos is a limited resource than can be cornered?
      - root_axis 5y ago
        Because creators have a business relationship with YouTube, not an employment one.
- syshum 5y ago
  There have been a few attempts. It never goes anywhere and never will
  - johnisgood 5y ago
    This attitude is one of the reasons for why it will not go anywhere though. There are plenty of alternatives for YouTube. I think the problem is that there are actually way too many. We need only ONE replacement, and it has to get popular enough. The reason I am saying that we need only one replacement is that I do not expect creators to upload their videos to 100 different YouTube-likes.
Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
It doesn't scale. That's the problem and why moderation is so difficult. It's incredibly difficult to scale. Anything that allows people to appeal negative actions will be abused by bad actors. Spend some time on the League of Legends or World of Warcraft forums or subreddits and you'll see people claiming to have been suspended or banned for no reason, until eventually a moderator or CS rep will come in and say "Actually you were banned because you spammed racial slurs in the game and told a teammate to kill themselves." Now imagine how many people put copyrighted music in their YouTube and afterwards appeal the inevitable copyright strikes on their video because they think it somehow falls under fair use or think putting "No copyright infringement intended" in the description absolves themselves of any wrong-doing.
- logicalmonster 5y ago
  People have suggested that this can be solved by Big Tech charging money for premium support in some fashion. It's not a perfect solution, but it would weed out the most frivolous and unimportant claims and make supporting the desperate people manageable.
  - jedberg 5y ago
    That would be terrible PR for them though. "YouTube banned me just so they could take my money to get help!" "Only rich people can get their YouTube accounts unbanned!" and so on.
    - root_axis 5y ago
      This could be partially mitigated if the fee behaved more like a deposit, but overall I agree, Google has no incentive to go down this route, especially because taking people's money who are already upset with you is a recipe for legal headache.
      - muzani 5y ago
        Well, there are startups that take a deposit and then ban people for getting lower than 4.5 star ratings. They keep the deposit, even when the account is unbanned.
wing-_-nuts 5y ago
I bought a pixel this year with a $100 discount for signing up for google fi. Turns out, their map is a lie, and I was completely without coverage, so I sign up with my old provider. I then get a nastygram saying I'm going to be charged the full $100 because I cancelled google fi. $50 more than the non promo price. I honestly started to do a chargeback on the promo charge, but I guarantee you I'd lose access to all google services because of a tos violation if I did that. Lesson learned. Never do business with a monopoly provider, you have no recourse.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  I always felt giving your credit card to google for anything was a terrible idea. Privacy aside. A company with terrible support should never be allowed direct access to your credit card.
- otterley 5y ago
  Did you return the phone within 15 days?
  - wing-_-nuts 5y ago
    The carriers are starting to turn off service to 3g, and older 4g devices at the end of this year. I couldn't guarantee that I'd be able to get another phone like I needed, so I'm coughing up the $100, and I'm simply resolving to never trust google with my money again. Having them claim that I'm violating their promotion because they can't deliver the service promised by their coverage map is infuriating.
    - otterley 5y ago
      The point of the 15 day return policy is to give you enough time to try their service, and if it doesn’t work for you, for whatever reason, to send the equipment back and cancel service. If you didn’t do that on time, well, that’s on you. You can’t have it both ways, to keep the equipment and get the discount while not using their service. That’s simply not what you agreed to. No carrier would let you do that.