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It bodes poorly for the environment if people are increasingly moving from denser cities to sprawling suburbs. This is in many ways a self-inflicted problem of

It bodes poorly for the environment if people are increasingly moving from denser cities to sprawling suburbs. This is in many ways a self-inflicted problem of high-cost cities, but it should be a national priority to reverse this trend.

kiba 5y ago
It's probably economically unsustainable. Even governments have bottom line they must manage.
numbsafari 5y ago
It depends on whether or not the move to a less dense area corresponds with increased travel and car use. My wife and I can go days without leaving our house. We have a single car. When we lived in a city, we went out multiple times per day, but it was almost exclusively on foot. We probably had the same number of car trips per week to visit friends, since most of them lived in the suburbs, plus wanting to get out into nature, which we value. When we lived in the suburbs, in an in-between space, we probably had the highest car use, and life required two vehicles. So, it's not either-or. There's a spectrum. You can't expect to maintain the same habits and lifestyle in a rural location as you do in a dense urban environment, etc. Expanding rural access to electric vehicle infrastructure, and re-investing in regional rail would be transformational for these communities, though.
zozbot234 5y ago
Except that this is not what's happening according to the OP. It's mostly a move from the largest, most expensive cities and suburbs towards smaller, but still high-density cities. Which implies less urban sprawl in general.
ben-schaaf 5y ago
It's always crazy to hear that suburbs are cheaper. Dense living inherently requires less infrastructure and less transportation, so it should be considerably cheaper. It's only through the subsidisation of suburbia and the low supply/high demand of high density urban areas that this is the case. Car centric suburbs aren't just terrible for the environment, terrible for safety and terrible for transportation; they're also incredibly costly.
- Clubber 5y ago
  With remote work becoming the norm, it is significantly less terrible. I remote 100% and the only time I drive is to visit family and friends. I put around 1500 miles a year on the car.
  - selectodude 5y ago
    I don't care how big my house is. The idea of being locked inside like that sounds absolutely awful to me.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      I am confused how one could interpret Clubber’s comment as “locked inside”. Having 24/7 access to their own vehicle sounds like the opposite of being locked inside.
    - criddell 5y ago
      It's different for everybody. In my 20's my apartment was where I slept and bathed and that's about it. The city was great because there was always something going on and the energy level is high. All that energy fed me in some way. In my 50's it's the reverse. I know who I am and what I like and the things that make me get up and be excited about the new day are now mostly internal. Being around a lot of people drains me. I've spent decades figuring out what I love and my home contains the stuff that makes me happier than anything outside (with the exception of really great restaurants). I hate saying it because I know it was really hard on a lot of people, but during the COVID lockdown days, I was happier than I've been for a long time.
    - Karsteski 5y ago
      Locked inside? You can step out any time you want. Such a silly exaggeration. Personally, I very much prefer country living where I can go to many hiking trails and campsites, have clean air, a quiet environment, and not be beholden to my neighbours for enjoyment of my own property.
- snek_case 5y ago
criddell 5y ago
I'm not so sure it's mostly about high-cost. The people who have new freedom due to increased remote work opportunities can probably afford the city. I think it's more likely that they are moving for quality of life reasons. I know that's true for me. Also, we've just been through (and might still be in) a pandemic. I'm very glad I didn't need to use public transportation for the past couple of years. I don't think the city is fixable for people who don't want to live in a city.
0x0nyandesu 5y ago
Who cares. Fuck the city. Never again.

kiba 5y ago

It's probably economically unsustainable. Even governments have bottom line they must manage.

numbsafari 5y ago

It depends on whether or not the move to a less dense area corresponds with increased travel and car use. My wife and I can go days without leaving our house. We have a single car. When we lived in a city, we went out multiple times per day, but it was almost exclusively on foot. We probably had the same number of car trips per week to visit friends, since most of them lived in the suburbs, plus wanting to get out into nature, which we value. When we lived in the suburbs, in an in-between space, we probably had the highest car use, and life required two vehicles. So, it's not either-or. There's a spectrum. You can't expect to maintain the same habits and lifestyle in a rural location as you do in a dense urban environment, etc. Expanding rural access to electric vehicle infrastructure, and re-investing in regional rail would be transformational for these communities, though.

zozbot234 5y ago

Except that this is not what's happening according to the OP. It's mostly a move from the largest, most expensive cities and suburbs towards smaller, but still high-density cities. Which implies less urban sprawl in general.

ben-schaaf 5y ago

It's always crazy to hear that suburbs are cheaper. Dense living inherently requires less infrastructure and less transportation, so it should be considerably cheaper. It's only through the subsidisation of suburbia and the low supply/high demand of high density urban areas that this is the case. Car centric suburbs aren't just terrible for the environment, terrible for safety and terrible for transportation; they're also incredibly costly.

Clubber 5y ago
With remote work becoming the norm, it is significantly less terrible. I remote 100% and the only time I drive is to visit family and friends. I put around 1500 miles a year on the car.
- selectodude 5y ago
  I don't care how big my house is. The idea of being locked inside like that sounds absolutely awful to me.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    I am confused how one could interpret Clubber’s comment as “locked inside”. Having 24/7 access to their own vehicle sounds like the opposite of being locked inside.
  - criddell 5y ago
    It's different for everybody. In my 20's my apartment was where I slept and bathed and that's about it. The city was great because there was always something going on and the energy level is high. All that energy fed me in some way. In my 50's it's the reverse. I know who I am and what I like and the things that make me get up and be excited about the new day are now mostly internal. Being around a lot of people drains me. I've spent decades figuring out what I love and my home contains the stuff that makes me happier than anything outside (with the exception of really great restaurants). I hate saying it because I know it was really hard on a lot of people, but during the COVID lockdown days, I was happier than I've been for a long time.
  - Karsteski 5y ago
    Locked inside? You can step out any time you want. Such a silly exaggeration. Personally, I very much prefer country living where I can go to many hiking trails and campsites, have clean air, a quiet environment, and not be beholden to my neighbours for enjoyment of my own property.
snek_case 5y ago

criddell 5y ago

I'm not so sure it's mostly about high-cost. The people who have new freedom due to increased remote work opportunities can probably afford the city. I think it's more likely that they are moving for quality of life reasons. I know that's true for me. Also, we've just been through (and might still be in) a pandemic. I'm very glad I didn't need to use public transportation for the past couple of years. I don't think the city is fixable for people who don't want to live in a city.

0x0nyandesu 5y ago

Who cares. Fuck the city. Never again.