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Off topic, but this really struck a chord. I arrive at the trailhead for an afternoon of mountain biking in the mountains. I can't record the ride route becau

Off topic, but this really struck a chord. I arrive at the trailhead for an afternoon of mountain biking in the mountains. I can't record the ride route because my mountain bike specific trail/ride logging app can't get an internet connection to log me in. I don't want to be logged in. I just want to record GPS over time. No maps needed. No server access needed. I guess they never thought someone might want to mountain bike in the mountains! Sorry, but that is an idiotic design decision. Unfortunately, this approach to "personal" computing has become the norm rather than an exception. People are not allowed to exist on their own.

0xFluegel 5y ago
Hamburg, Germany: the public transport services released a new app a few months ago which assumes that the request failed when the app has not finished receiving an answer to a route query after a given time span. The problem: It is normal to have a data cap that, when reached, limits the rate to 64 kbit/s. That is too slow for the answer to be fully transmitted in time... At least the website works, even though it transmits the full site for every request...
sambull-airways 5y ago
For android users, Strava makes things easy, but OsmAnd has way more features and I like it a lot more.
anthomtb 5y ago
Did this happen with Strava? My usual morning MTB lap has no cell service at the trailhead and it’s never been an issue. But I’ve also never found myself logged out before.
notnaut 5y ago
The massive 5G infrastructure push should help deal with some of you “occasionally offline” dissidents
- Hnrobert42 5y ago
  How so? I thought 5G is mostly coming to densely populated areas, that is, areas that already have decent connectivity. Also, at least currently, I thought 5G is a developed country thing. Lots of folks are still running off 3G.
  - edgriebel 5y ago
    Huh, almost seems like 5G is marketing bullshit? The primary goal of 5G being to goad and shame consumers into upgrading a perfectly capable older phone to a new phone that is “5G ready”
    - ev1 5y ago
      I'm very excited to have gigabit download speeds so I can hit my hidden "unlimited" undescribed quota within a minute while also permanently having hotspot throttled to 128kbps.
- digitallyfree 5y ago
  There still likely won't be towers in the mountains or backcountry.
- jimmyswimmy 5y ago
  I'm very excited to heqr the plan for locating 5G towers in the ocean, in remote wilderness sites, in underground facilities, the Antarctic, etc. People visit these sites and expect their tech to work fine as long as it doesnt obviously require a network connection. Of course I can't browse HN from those places, but my otherwise self contained apps should continue to run predictably.
- snowwrestler 5y ago
  The higher frequencies of 5G are even more easily blocked by outdoorsy things like trees and rain.
- kube-system 5y ago
  No, if anything it will be harder to connect rural areas with 5G. 4G’s coverage is measured in miles. 5G’s coverage is measured in feet. https://www.verizon.com/about/news/how-far-does-5g-reach https://www.verizon.com/about/news/how-far-does-5g-reach > 5G Ultra Wideband network’s signal can reach up to 1,500 feet without obstructions
c0nsumer 5y ago
...then use a different app. There are myriad ways to record rides with no data service; I do it all the time. Most commonly I use Strava or a dedicated Garmin bike computer. Syncing / uploading then happens once they have signal again. Or in the case of the Garmin I copy the FIT file off by hand when plugging it into my computer.
- bichiliad 5y ago
  I think that by the time you're at the top of a mountain without cell service, you're already locked in to an app that won't let you record your position.
- xiphias2 5y ago
  So your solution for a software problem is buying more hardware. Companies must love you.
  - serial_dev 5y ago
    I don't think that was the point at all, the point was that if your app doesn't let you record your track without internet connection, then it's on that specific app (and eventually it's on you if you stick with such an app). There are many apps that let you track your run/hike/ride without internet connection.
    - c0nsumer 5y ago
      You got it; the point is that it's a one-time problem after which a different app should be chosen. There's a ton of things out there which'll record rides offline. Personally, I think a dedicated bike computer is best, because then the phone's battery is saved for emergency uses instead of recording a ride. For long rides (8-10 hour) phones won't have enough battery to record the whole ride.
    - Bancakes 5y ago
      Some people like the interface/extra features of an app. I tried going from google maps to open street maps, and came back in 5 minutes flat.
osigurdson 5y ago
Strava doesn't require an internet connection (at least on Apple watch). For maps, Trailforks supports offline mode.
- khuey 5y ago
  Strava doesn't need a connection on Android either.
bayindirh 5y ago
...and yet, we're hitting to the same wall again: Hardware is cheap, network is reliable. Move fast and break things. Neither of these assumptions are true, and we're going to have these issues by truckload, until we understand and change our mindset.
kmarc 5y ago
The PADI (suba diving) app barely works without constant internet connection, especially eLearning is useless with it once you are offline / have a shaky connection. Scuba diving spots on the world are rarely well covered with internet and even if they are, still many people don't have the roaming/local SIM solution for it. Guess where you want to use that damn app the most?
josho 5y ago
Yeh I hit that too! If it’s the same app their business model is to charge for offline use. Not a great way to get new customers though as it requires missing out on logging a ride to become aware of a reason to buy.
pmontra 5y ago
I record GPX with OSMAnd+ running on my older and smaller Android phone. No SIM, no Bluetooth, only GPS. It goes on all day long. Then I send it to my new phone or to my computer over WiFi. If I were in the mountains I'd turn on hot spot mode on the phone to make the transfer work. No log in, no external services.
cronix 5y ago
It's exactly why I quit using fitbit 4 or 5 years ago when they made a similar change. There should be 0 reason for needing an internet connection to send data from a wristband 2 feet away to my phone using bluetooth in order to tell me how many feet I've traveled. That may have changed since then but I wouldn't know. They lost me as a customer.
egberts1 5y ago
Some great offline GPS (cell-free) map apps for Apple iOS are - Sygic, - Topo Map+, - 2GIS - Starwalk - Night Sky 2 - and my fav, Genius Map all works without WiFi, cell coverage, nor NFC/bluetooth
- euroderf 5y ago
  Also maps.me
  - austhrow743 5y ago
    Maps.me started to implement some monetisation UI bloat a while ago. I swapped to organic maps. Can’t remember if it’s a fork or by one of the old maps.me developers but there was some connection.
    - euroderf 5y ago
      Is it possible to migrate saved-places from MM to OM ?
sophacles 5y ago
You made the mistake of thinking an app's functionality is it's purpose. The functionality is just a thin veneer of an excuse the devs use to track your every moment. Why would you think otherwise? Even if it cost money to install, you are just paying for the privilege of being tracked by those folks instead of others. #appsnotevenonce
- pbhjpbhj 5y ago
  Any good FOSS exercise monitoring apps?
authed 5y ago
I use GPSLogger that saves my ride to a GPX file that can then be imported wherever you want.
tored 5y ago
You can’t add a password to Bitwarden while being offline. Discovered this when I tried to add a WiFi password before connecting to it.

0xFluegel 5y ago

Hamburg, Germany: the public transport services released a new app a few months ago which assumes that the request failed when the app has not finished receiving an answer to a route query after a given time span. The problem: It is normal to have a data cap that, when reached, limits the rate to 64 kbit/s. That is too slow for the answer to be fully transmitted in time... At least the website works, even though it transmits the full site for every request...

sambull-airways 5y ago

For android users, Strava makes things easy, but OsmAnd has way more features and I like it a lot more.

anthomtb 5y ago

Did this happen with Strava? My usual morning MTB lap has no cell service at the trailhead and it’s never been an issue. But I’ve also never found myself logged out before.

notnaut 5y ago

The massive 5G infrastructure push should help deal with some of you “occasionally offline” dissidents

Hnrobert42 5y ago
How so? I thought 5G is mostly coming to densely populated areas, that is, areas that already have decent connectivity. Also, at least currently, I thought 5G is a developed country thing. Lots of folks are still running off 3G.
- edgriebel 5y ago
  Huh, almost seems like 5G is marketing bullshit? The primary goal of 5G being to goad and shame consumers into upgrading a perfectly capable older phone to a new phone that is “5G ready”
  - ev1 5y ago
    I'm very excited to have gigabit download speeds so I can hit my hidden "unlimited" undescribed quota within a minute while also permanently having hotspot throttled to 128kbps.
digitallyfree 5y ago
There still likely won't be towers in the mountains or backcountry.
jimmyswimmy 5y ago
I'm very excited to heqr the plan for locating 5G towers in the ocean, in remote wilderness sites, in underground facilities, the Antarctic, etc. People visit these sites and expect their tech to work fine as long as it doesnt obviously require a network connection. Of course I can't browse HN from those places, but my otherwise self contained apps should continue to run predictably.
snowwrestler 5y ago
The higher frequencies of 5G are even more easily blocked by outdoorsy things like trees and rain.
kube-system 5y ago
No, if anything it will be harder to connect rural areas with 5G. 4G’s coverage is measured in miles. 5G’s coverage is measured in feet. https://www.verizon.com/about/news/how-far-does-5g-reach https://www.verizon.com/about/news/how-far-does-5g-reach > 5G Ultra Wideband network’s signal can reach up to 1,500 feet without obstructions

c0nsumer 5y ago

...then use a different app. There are myriad ways to record rides with no data service; I do it all the time. Most commonly I use Strava or a dedicated Garmin bike computer. Syncing / uploading then happens once they have signal again. Or in the case of the Garmin I copy the FIT file off by hand when plugging it into my computer.

bichiliad 5y ago
I think that by the time you're at the top of a mountain without cell service, you're already locked in to an app that won't let you record your position.
xiphias2 5y ago
So your solution for a software problem is buying more hardware. Companies must love you.
- serial_dev 5y ago
  I don't think that was the point at all, the point was that if your app doesn't let you record your track without internet connection, then it's on that specific app (and eventually it's on you if you stick with such an app). There are many apps that let you track your run/hike/ride without internet connection.
  - c0nsumer 5y ago
    You got it; the point is that it's a one-time problem after which a different app should be chosen. There's a ton of things out there which'll record rides offline. Personally, I think a dedicated bike computer is best, because then the phone's battery is saved for emergency uses instead of recording a ride. For long rides (8-10 hour) phones won't have enough battery to record the whole ride.
  - Bancakes 5y ago
    Some people like the interface/extra features of an app. I tried going from google maps to open street maps, and came back in 5 minutes flat.

osigurdson 5y ago

Strava doesn't require an internet connection (at least on Apple watch). For maps, Trailforks supports offline mode.

khuey 5y ago
Strava doesn't need a connection on Android either.

bayindirh 5y ago

...and yet, we're hitting to the same wall again: Hardware is cheap, network is reliable. Move fast and break things. Neither of these assumptions are true, and we're going to have these issues by truckload, until we understand and change our mindset.

kmarc 5y ago

The PADI (suba diving) app barely works without constant internet connection, especially eLearning is useless with it once you are offline / have a shaky connection. Scuba diving spots on the world are rarely well covered with internet and even if they are, still many people don't have the roaming/local SIM solution for it. Guess where you want to use that damn app the most?

josho 5y ago

Yeh I hit that too! If it’s the same app their business model is to charge for offline use. Not a great way to get new customers though as it requires missing out on logging a ride to become aware of a reason to buy.

pmontra 5y ago

I record GPX with OSMAnd+ running on my older and smaller Android phone. No SIM, no Bluetooth, only GPS. It goes on all day long. Then I send it to my new phone or to my computer over WiFi. If I were in the mountains I'd turn on hot spot mode on the phone to make the transfer work. No log in, no external services.

cronix 5y ago

It's exactly why I quit using fitbit 4 or 5 years ago when they made a similar change. There should be 0 reason for needing an internet connection to send data from a wristband 2 feet away to my phone using bluetooth in order to tell me how many feet I've traveled. That may have changed since then but I wouldn't know. They lost me as a customer.

egberts1 5y ago

Some great offline GPS (cell-free) map apps for Apple iOS are - Sygic, - Topo Map+, - 2GIS - Starwalk - Night Sky 2 - and my fav, Genius Map all works without WiFi, cell coverage, nor NFC/bluetooth

euroderf 5y ago
Also maps.me
- austhrow743 5y ago
  Maps.me started to implement some monetisation UI bloat a while ago. I swapped to organic maps. Can’t remember if it’s a fork or by one of the old maps.me developers but there was some connection.
  - euroderf 5y ago
    Is it possible to migrate saved-places from MM to OM ?

sophacles 5y ago

You made the mistake of thinking an app's functionality is it's purpose. The functionality is just a thin veneer of an excuse the devs use to track your every moment. Why would you think otherwise? Even if it cost money to install, you are just paying for the privilege of being tracked by those folks instead of others. #appsnotevenonce

pbhjpbhj 5y ago
Any good FOSS exercise monitoring apps?

authed 5y ago

I use GPSLogger that saves my ride to a GPX file that can then be imported wherever you want.

tored 5y ago

You can’t add a password to Bitwarden while being offline. Discovered this when I tried to add a WiFi password before connecting to it.