10 ms·

China: Democracy That Works

13 points by hillcrestenigma 5y ago

zeristor 5y ago
Check for April 1st?
- pkdpic 5y ago
  Or April the 4th (1984) ;p
garbagecoder 5y ago
This but ironically.
fontenot-jon 5y ago
its a good read.china is as much a democracy as the US pretending to be, but without lying to its brainwashed people.
- zepto 5y ago
  Luckily you aren’t brainwashed and can tell us this.
- baash05 5y ago
  Feels that way in Australia lately.. We have to vote for Party X or Party X light.
lettergram 5y ago
From: > The State Council Information Office of the People's Republic of China So literally the propaganda office lol
- natded 5y ago
  This is much more fair than the government and the so-called independent media doing it through back-channels, no? I personally would prefer if my government named the office that controls national broadcasting as the "The Department of Information" or better yet, "The Department of State Propaganda" Some interesting links: > https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1468064220843425796 https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1468064220843425796 > https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1469331084550852615 https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1469331084550852615 > https://twitter.com/AuronMacintyre/status/1468327753011318793 https://twitter.com/AuronMacintyre/status/146832775301131879...
pkdpic 5y ago
In all seriousness after getting addicted to reading Liu Cixin (who the PRC seems to fully support) Ive found myself occasionally wondering how much of what I think about China and it's oppressive surveillance state could possibly be ambient US propaganda or anti propaganda. But then again the only friend I have that speaks Chinese and has visited China for work multiple times backs most of it up. More of a thought experiment but getting hooked by clickable title here stirred it up again in my head.
- natded 5y ago
  Most of the online discussion centered around China is just US domestic political projection using an imaginary China as a mirror, or as a counterfactual which doesn't exist, and then there's the obvious propaganda too.
travisgriggs 5y ago
Is there a karma level on HN where you can downvote articles? I can down and upvote comments, but only upvote articles. Will there be a point in my karma life when I can downvote a submission like this?
- pkdpic 5y ago
  Thats a good question.
- greenyoda 5y ago
  Nobody can downvote articles on HN. However, if an article is off-topic or otherwise violates site guidelines, you can flag it. I don't think this article should be flagged however, since it's a rare glimpse into how the Chinese Communist Party tries to influence world opinion (although I doubt many could be convinced that China is a democracy).
  - baash05 5y ago
    Off topic? I just read an article about Sesame Street, and followed it up with an article about tornados, followed by a video of "Planes I see from my front yard." I'm not sure what topic HN really falls under.
    - greenyoda 5y ago
      It's discussed in the first couple of paragraphs of the HN Guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- hillcrestenigma 5y ago
  I just thought that this whitepaper from the Chinese government was interesting to share. I do recognise that the whitepaper is propaganda but not all my submissions have to reflect my thoughts and opinions. Given that Hacker News occasionally has discussions on politics I believe that it is fitting to share, propaganda or not.
vanusa 5y ago
This document is actually quite fascinating -- if nothing else than as an dazzling display of institutional mind rot. So it shouldn't be flagged. It would be a shame if it didn't get wider circulation, in fact.
dirtyid 5y ago
"Whole-process democracy", i.e. democracy with Chinese characteristics was formulated at 4th plenum in 2019. Was wondering when it was going to be weaponized on international stage. I think it will go further to erode west's monopoly on defining democracy than most here would think. PRC tends to gain plurality support at UN for initiatives that undermines western discourse power. Either way, plays well domestically. Latest democracy perception index: 73% of PRC Chinese thinks the country is democratic, 84% thinks democracy is important, which is... high even compared to actual democracies. Perceived Democratic Deficit gap of 11% means citizens think the government is largely living up to expectations.
da-x 5y ago
> The system of multiparty cooperation and political consultation under the leadership of the CPC is a basic element of China's political framework. TIL the CCP has (only?) about 70% of the seats [1]. I wonder what power or influence the other members have. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_C...
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  Imagine if Republicans got to vet and affirm any Democrats who would serve in congress, how much power do you think the Democrats would have? Regardless, it’s not like the NPC has much power anyways, they basically just rubber stamp whatever the politburo decides on. Also paradoxically, given that the NPC has a quota for non-CPC members, it is often easier to get a seat being a non communist than a communist.

zeristor 5y ago

Check for April 1st?

pkdpic 5y ago
Or April the 4th (1984) ;p

garbagecoder 5y ago

This but ironically.

fontenot-jon 5y ago

its a good read.china is as much a democracy as the US pretending to be, but without lying to its brainwashed people.

zepto 5y ago
Luckily you aren’t brainwashed and can tell us this.
baash05 5y ago
Feels that way in Australia lately.. We have to vote for Party X or Party X light.

lettergram 5y ago

From: > The State Council Information Office of the People's Republic of China So literally the propaganda office lol

natded 5y ago
This is much more fair than the government and the so-called independent media doing it through back-channels, no? I personally would prefer if my government named the office that controls national broadcasting as the "The Department of Information" or better yet, "The Department of State Propaganda" Some interesting links: > https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1468064220843425796 https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1468064220843425796 > https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1469331084550852615 https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1469331084550852615 > https://twitter.com/AuronMacintyre/status/1468327753011318793 https://twitter.com/AuronMacintyre/status/146832775301131879...

pkdpic 5y ago

In all seriousness after getting addicted to reading Liu Cixin (who the PRC seems to fully support) Ive found myself occasionally wondering how much of what I think about China and it's oppressive surveillance state could possibly be ambient US propaganda or anti propaganda. But then again the only friend I have that speaks Chinese and has visited China for work multiple times backs most of it up. More of a thought experiment but getting hooked by clickable title here stirred it up again in my head.

natded 5y ago
Most of the online discussion centered around China is just US domestic political projection using an imaginary China as a mirror, or as a counterfactual which doesn't exist, and then there's the obvious propaganda too.

travisgriggs 5y ago

Is there a karma level on HN where you can downvote articles? I can down and upvote comments, but only upvote articles. Will there be a point in my karma life when I can downvote a submission like this?

pkdpic 5y ago
Thats a good question.
greenyoda 5y ago
Nobody can downvote articles on HN. However, if an article is off-topic or otherwise violates site guidelines, you can flag it. I don't think this article should be flagged however, since it's a rare glimpse into how the Chinese Communist Party tries to influence world opinion (although I doubt many could be convinced that China is a democracy).
- baash05 5y ago
  Off topic? I just read an article about Sesame Street, and followed it up with an article about tornados, followed by a video of "Planes I see from my front yard." I'm not sure what topic HN really falls under.
  - greenyoda 5y ago
    It's discussed in the first couple of paragraphs of the HN Guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
hillcrestenigma 5y ago
I just thought that this whitepaper from the Chinese government was interesting to share. I do recognise that the whitepaper is propaganda but not all my submissions have to reflect my thoughts and opinions. Given that Hacker News occasionally has discussions on politics I believe that it is fitting to share, propaganda or not.

vanusa 5y ago

This document is actually quite fascinating -- if nothing else than as an dazzling display of institutional mind rot. So it shouldn't be flagged. It would be a shame if it didn't get wider circulation, in fact.

dirtyid 5y ago

"Whole-process democracy", i.e. democracy with Chinese characteristics was formulated at 4th plenum in 2019. Was wondering when it was going to be weaponized on international stage. I think it will go further to erode west's monopoly on defining democracy than most here would think. PRC tends to gain plurality support at UN for initiatives that undermines western discourse power. Either way, plays well domestically. Latest democracy perception index: 73% of PRC Chinese thinks the country is democratic, 84% thinks democracy is important, which is... high even compared to actual democracies. Perceived Democratic Deficit gap of 11% means citizens think the government is largely living up to expectations.

da-x 5y ago

> The system of multiparty cooperation and political consultation under the leadership of the CPC is a basic element of China's political framework. TIL the CCP has (only?) about 70% of the seats [1]. I wonder what power or influence the other members have. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_C...

seanmcdirmid 5y ago
Imagine if Republicans got to vet and affirm any Democrats who would serve in congress, how much power do you think the Democrats would have? Regardless, it’s not like the NPC has much power anyways, they basically just rubber stamp whatever the politburo decides on. Also paradoxically, given that the NPC has a quota for non-CPC members, it is often easier to get a seat being a non communist than a communist.