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My argument is not closed source. My argument is that "just fork it" does not magically fix all problems. Closed source makes this worse but "fork it" is no ans

by zaarn 5y ago

My argument is not closed source. My argument is that "just fork it" does not magically fix all problems. Closed source makes this worse but "fork it" is no answer either. I believe I made this very clear on my very first comment.

kristjansson 5y ago
Right … open source doesn’t guarantee an absence of problems, only that, in the worst case, a user can repair a problem herself. As you note, that’s strictly preferable to closed source, where a problem with a dependency is not guaranteed to be fixable by the user. Isn’t that enough?
- zaarn 5y ago
  That is not sufficient no. As a user, I want to be able to support developers so they have the time to fix things that go wrong. That the log4j Maintainers are entirely unpaid for maintaining what amounts to the bedrock of the java ecosystem is a tragedy and that people continue to argue that this is how it should be are simply exploiting what amounts to slave labor.
  - IiydAbITMvJkqKf 5y ago
    You have zero clue about what slave labour is.
    - zaarn 5y ago
      I have plenty of clues of what slave labor is and big companies exploiting the hard work of people working for free without paying them is definitely pretty damn close.
      - IiydAbITMvJkqKf 5y ago
        This is reddit tier derangedness, any one of the millions of people living under real slavery, where you get lined up to a wall and shot if you refuse to work would gladly switch places with anyone living under what you dream up to be "slavery".
        the_af 5y ago
        Agreed, calling this slavery is a level of hyperbole that doesn't help the debate at all.
  - the_af 5y ago
    > As a user, I want to be able to support developers so they have the time to fix things that go wrong. As an individual user, you shouldn't be required to. It's not how or why the project started, anyway. Maybe big companies whose system depend on log4j could fund it, yes. > what amounts to slave labor That kind of hyperbole doesn't help the discussion. The situation is nothing at all like slave labor.
the_af 5y ago
I misunderstood you then. I agree with your statement. Open source doesn't solve all problems, just some. There are hard problems about dependency management and vulnerabilities that are not magically solved by something being open source, I agree.

by zaarn 5y ago

kristjansson 5y ago

Right … open source doesn’t guarantee an absence of problems, only that, in the worst case, a user can repair a problem herself. As you note, that’s strictly preferable to closed source, where a problem with a dependency is not guaranteed to be fixable by the user. Isn’t that enough?

zaarn 5y ago
That is not sufficient no. As a user, I want to be able to support developers so they have the time to fix things that go wrong. That the log4j Maintainers are entirely unpaid for maintaining what amounts to the bedrock of the java ecosystem is a tragedy and that people continue to argue that this is how it should be are simply exploiting what amounts to slave labor.
- IiydAbITMvJkqKf 5y ago
  You have zero clue about what slave labour is.
  - zaarn 5y ago
    I have plenty of clues of what slave labor is and big companies exploiting the hard work of people working for free without paying them is definitely pretty damn close.
    - IiydAbITMvJkqKf 5y ago
      This is reddit tier derangedness, any one of the millions of people living under real slavery, where you get lined up to a wall and shot if you refuse to work would gladly switch places with anyone living under what you dream up to be "slavery".
      - the_af 5y ago
        Agreed, calling this slavery is a level of hyperbole that doesn't help the debate at all.
- the_af 5y ago
  > As a user, I want to be able to support developers so they have the time to fix things that go wrong. As an individual user, you shouldn't be required to. It's not how or why the project started, anyway. Maybe big companies whose system depend on log4j could fund it, yes. > what amounts to slave labor That kind of hyperbole doesn't help the discussion. The situation is nothing at all like slave labor.

the_af 5y ago

I misunderstood you then. I agree with your statement. Open source doesn't solve all problems, just some. There are hard problems about dependency management and vulnerabilities that are not magically solved by something being open source, I agree.