5 ms·

Can't they change their sex on their driver's license/ID card? (it's pretty much all that matters, probably, as of today) reply to comment below: What I mean i

by authed 5y ago

Can't they change their sex on their driver's license/ID card? (it's pretty much all that matters, probably, as of today) reply to comment below: What I mean is that you could say that you are a male/female or whatever you want and X years old and you would have documentation to back it up.

kelseyfrog 5y ago
> it's pretty much all that matters, probably, as of today Not really understanding this. What does it mean?
smoldesu 5y ago
> you could say that you are a male/female or whatever and X years old and if someone ask you for proof, you would be able to provide it Identifying as male or female is pretty much an arbitrary social structure in today's society. Your age is not.
- authed 5y ago
  > Identifying as male or female is pretty much an arbitrary social structure Are you sure that everyone's cells age at the same rate?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  How is age not an arbitrary social structure? There is a lot of social structures and expectations tied to age that are just as arbitrary. People view you differently and there are laws which govern who you can and can not marry.
  - quenix 5y ago
    Age is not an arbitrary social structure—it is a number directly proportional to the number of seconds that have passed since you exited your mother's womb. Gender expression is a social structure, however. Note that I am using the word 'gender expression' here rather than 'biological sex', which is not an arbitrary social structure. See the difference?
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      Then we should separate the concepts of temporal age from expressed age. For most purposes and matters, we should defer to the individual's expressed age of preference. I can think of few instances where someone's temporal age is more relevant than the expressed age.
      - smoldesu 5y ago
        > For most purposes and matters, we should defer to the individual's expressed age of preference. Pray tell, what are some relevant "purposes and matters" where an expressed age would be more practical than a... legally binding one? My understanding was that age isn't just counted for the hell of it, since we have socially decided that younger people shouldn't be allowed to partake in certain "purposes and matters", as opposed to how we socially settled on the idea that men and women are equals.
        s1artibartfast 5y ago
        >Pray tell, what are some relevant "purposes and matters" where an expressed age would be more practical than a... legally binding one? The premise of this case is that an individual wants to change their legal age to what they feel is their expressed age. This would enable them to take advantage of the legal and social practicalities of the younger age. Examples of why some purposes why someone might want to be treated as the age they identify with might be: To receive legal benefits corresponding to the age they identify as. Be protected against discrimination for representing their identified age. Compete in sporting events for their identified age. We have socially settled on the idea that mend and women are equals, and that people can identify as either men or women as they choose. Assuming someone is an adult, they are are considered equal. Why not allow the right to be treated as the age they identify with.
sascha_sl 5y ago
The existence of trans/gnc people/how they do better if you let them do their thing has been documented pretty well for centuries[1]/a century[2] respectively. When it happens with age or race instead of gender it's somehow almost always some conservative taking the piss to draw a false equivalence. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender#History [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissen...

by authed 5y ago

kelseyfrog 5y ago

> it's pretty much all that matters, probably, as of today Not really understanding this. What does it mean?

smoldesu 5y ago

> you could say that you are a male/female or whatever and X years old and if someone ask you for proof, you would be able to provide it Identifying as male or female is pretty much an arbitrary social structure in today's society. Your age is not.

authed 5y ago
> Identifying as male or female is pretty much an arbitrary social structure Are you sure that everyone's cells age at the same rate?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
s1artibartfast 5y ago
How is age not an arbitrary social structure? There is a lot of social structures and expectations tied to age that are just as arbitrary. People view you differently and there are laws which govern who you can and can not marry.
- quenix 5y ago
  Age is not an arbitrary social structure—it is a number directly proportional to the number of seconds that have passed since you exited your mother's womb. Gender expression is a social structure, however. Note that I am using the word 'gender expression' here rather than 'biological sex', which is not an arbitrary social structure. See the difference?
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    Then we should separate the concepts of temporal age from expressed age. For most purposes and matters, we should defer to the individual's expressed age of preference. I can think of few instances where someone's temporal age is more relevant than the expressed age.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      > For most purposes and matters, we should defer to the individual's expressed age of preference. Pray tell, what are some relevant "purposes and matters" where an expressed age would be more practical than a... legally binding one? My understanding was that age isn't just counted for the hell of it, since we have socially decided that younger people shouldn't be allowed to partake in certain "purposes and matters", as opposed to how we socially settled on the idea that men and women are equals.
      - s1artibartfast 5y ago
        >Pray tell, what are some relevant "purposes and matters" where an expressed age would be more practical than a... legally binding one? The premise of this case is that an individual wants to change their legal age to what they feel is their expressed age. This would enable them to take advantage of the legal and social practicalities of the younger age. Examples of why some purposes why someone might want to be treated as the age they identify with might be: To receive legal benefits corresponding to the age they identify as. Be protected against discrimination for representing their identified age. Compete in sporting events for their identified age. We have socially settled on the idea that mend and women are equals, and that people can identify as either men or women as they choose. Assuming someone is an adult, they are are considered equal. Why not allow the right to be treated as the age they identify with.

sascha_sl 5y ago

The existence of trans/gnc people/how they do better if you let them do their thing has been documented pretty well for centuries[1]/a century[2] respectively. When it happens with age or race instead of gender it's somehow almost always some conservative taking the piss to draw a false equivalence. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender#History [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissen...