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Agreed. But apparently we're on the wrong side of the narrative. The simple fact is, we don't have leadership able to tell consumers that they've done too good

Agreed. But apparently we're on the wrong side of the narrative. The simple fact is, we don't have leadership able to tell consumers that they've done too good job (to the point of ruining their own health), that the (over) consumption economy has failed them. This is why (in the USA) we hear very little about areas not overrun (e.g., many African countries). I am by no means a Covid denier, but the bottom line is: Covid is more of a symptom (of broader health and healthcare issues) than it is a Black Plague-esque disease. Since the majoriry rules, and illness has been normalized there will be few in power willing to speak truth.

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
It's an interesting take but you are only partly correct, because only some of these problems are self-inflicted, so to say. There are only as many ways you can influence your blood pressure levels for example. At some point no matter what you do - you run an hour a day, eat veggies mainly, eat zero salt (which is not recommended btw) - and still have higher blood pressure than your older colleague with BMI above average. So you can't just claim COVID-19 is punishing the people who don't take care of themselves.
- nradov 5y ago
  The impact of salt on blood pressure is based on concentration (osmolality), not quantity. Consuming excess fructose can also cause hypertension due to the biochemical mechanisms in humans and other primates that cause higher uric acid production. https://peterattiamd.com/rickjohnson/ https://peterattiamd.com/rickjohnson/
- chiefalchemist 5y ago
  I agree 100%, and should have said so in my OP, there are some who have conditions that are difficult to treat. However, there are a significant number that are legitimately preventable. Rare is rhe case where a doctor's prescription is "consume more sugar." The science, which we're all in favor of, is pretty clear on this. It's not logical that we (in the USA) continue to side step a serious discussion about the value of prevention (and how that relates to the level of unhealthines we are on average.)
gelert 5y ago
Congratulations on realising that successful diseases reflect their environments and times in human history. Were you alive during the Black Death I imagine you'd be talking about how, though you're no denier, it's the fault of people using ships to trade.
- techbio 5y ago
  Since GP refers to ubiquitous systemic issues, not xenophobia, not technological ventures, "ships to trade" seems to be a red herring. Also worth noting: "congratulations" reads more than a bit disingenuously.
- lnanek2 5y ago
  Don't see how ships to trade is a red herring. First Google result for "Black Death rats ships": > The Black Death was also carried by rats on merchant ships through the trade routes of Europe. It struck Europe in 1347, when 12 ships docked at the Sicilian port of Messina. Subsequently called “death ships”, those on board were either dead or sick Parent is using an example of a case where we know trade by ships helped cause the plague to spread, so is similar to how obese people have worse covid outcomes. No one is really going to go on a platform and attack trade by ships, though, just like in modern times no one is allowed to discriminate against the obese.
  - techbio 5y ago
    Because "ships to trade" is the Black Death equivalent of something like "Wuhan flu". Not even close to obesity. Maybe you are looking for "allowing home ovens to bake bread attracts rats."
    - chiefalchemist 5y ago
      The point is, the infection rates, etc. are not comparable. Taken in aggragate and on a long enough time line just about anything can look dangerous. Sans, evidently, preventable diseases. Then we sweep those aside, even before Covid. Again, all that's being suggested is more transparency and honesty, and less hyperbole and statistical fueled manipulation. That is all.

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago

It's an interesting take but you are only partly correct, because only some of these problems are self-inflicted, so to say. There are only as many ways you can influence your blood pressure levels for example. At some point no matter what you do - you run an hour a day, eat veggies mainly, eat zero salt (which is not recommended btw) - and still have higher blood pressure than your older colleague with BMI above average. So you can't just claim COVID-19 is punishing the people who don't take care of themselves.

nradov 5y ago
The impact of salt on blood pressure is based on concentration (osmolality), not quantity. Consuming excess fructose can also cause hypertension due to the biochemical mechanisms in humans and other primates that cause higher uric acid production. https://peterattiamd.com/rickjohnson/ https://peterattiamd.com/rickjohnson/
chiefalchemist 5y ago
I agree 100%, and should have said so in my OP, there are some who have conditions that are difficult to treat. However, there are a significant number that are legitimately preventable. Rare is rhe case where a doctor's prescription is "consume more sugar." The science, which we're all in favor of, is pretty clear on this. It's not logical that we (in the USA) continue to side step a serious discussion about the value of prevention (and how that relates to the level of unhealthines we are on average.)

gelert 5y ago

Congratulations on realising that successful diseases reflect their environments and times in human history. Were you alive during the Black Death I imagine you'd be talking about how, though you're no denier, it's the fault of people using ships to trade.

techbio 5y ago
Since GP refers to ubiquitous systemic issues, not xenophobia, not technological ventures, "ships to trade" seems to be a red herring. Also worth noting: "congratulations" reads more than a bit disingenuously.
lnanek2 5y ago
Don't see how ships to trade is a red herring. First Google result for "Black Death rats ships": > The Black Death was also carried by rats on merchant ships through the trade routes of Europe. It struck Europe in 1347, when 12 ships docked at the Sicilian port of Messina. Subsequently called “death ships”, those on board were either dead or sick Parent is using an example of a case where we know trade by ships helped cause the plague to spread, so is similar to how obese people have worse covid outcomes. No one is really going to go on a platform and attack trade by ships, though, just like in modern times no one is allowed to discriminate against the obese.
- techbio 5y ago
  Because "ships to trade" is the Black Death equivalent of something like "Wuhan flu". Not even close to obesity. Maybe you are looking for "allowing home ovens to bake bread attracts rats."
  - chiefalchemist 5y ago
    The point is, the infection rates, etc. are not comparable. Taken in aggragate and on a long enough time line just about anything can look dangerous. Sans, evidently, preventable diseases. Then we sweep those aside, even before Covid. Again, all that's being suggested is more transparency and honesty, and less hyperbole and statistical fueled manipulation. That is all.