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Just stop using their products and don't hire anyone who started working there after the labor dispute happened. Get big companies to sign a pledge like a code

Just stop using their products and don't hire anyone who started working there after the labor dispute happened. Get big companies to sign a pledge like a code of conduct that says they won't do business with scabs or companies using scabs. Use collective bargaining to hold their feet to the fire.

nrmitchi 5y ago
> don't hire anyone who started working there after the labor dispute happened. I kind of see the point that you're trying to make, but I'm sure you understand that not everyone is in the same position to pick and choose jobs that the majority of HN find themselves in. Often when someone takes a job, it's because they need a job in order to live. It's pretty shitty of you to suggest that that individual should be barred from future employment because they had to take a job that was available, even if the reason it was available is disagreeable.
- wayoutthere 5y ago
  Scab jobs are a negotiating tactic; they’re very temporary and that should be known. This strike will eventually be over and they’ll fire the scabs immediately (and the scabs will be blacklisted). Taking one of those jobs does nothing to advance a person’s position and in fact will probably leave them worse off.
  - nrmitchi 5y ago
    > Taking one of those jobs does nothing to advance a person’s position I don't believe that anyone taking these positions are doing it in order to advance their career. > will probably leave them worse off Worse than homeless, starving, and possibly dead?
- ryandrake 5y ago
  You could say the same thing about the whole spectrum of ethically questionable jobs. I think we can all agree that there is at least some point on that spectrum where "Well, I needed a job" is an unacceptable excuse. We're currently living in one of those rare times where there are a lot of non-questionable jobs going unfilled, and employers are a little uncomfortable with the number of job vacancies. So, if you have to take a job, there are currently plenty out there that keep your hands clean of strike-busting.
  - nrmitchi 5y ago
    > You could say the same thing about the whole spectrum of ethically questionable jobs. I think we can all agree that there is at least some point on that spectrum where "Well, I needed a job" is an unacceptable excuse. Sure, but "ethically questionable jobs" is a pretty massive spectrum, and I'm not sure that I would agree that "making cereal during a labor dispute" meets the line of "to unethical for me" for the majority of people. > So, if you have to take a job, there are currently plenty out there that keep your hands clean of strike-busting. So is strike-busting the only place you draw the line? What about having to take a job at Hobby-Lobby? Or Chick-fil-a? Amazon has some some pretty sleezy stuff, so you don't want to support them. Walmart employees often depend on food stamps, and you should keep your hands clean of supporting a company that treats it's employees so poorly. There are tons of jobs that you could take in order to keep food on your table that aren't Kellogg, or Hobby-Lobby, or Chick-fil-a, or Amazon, or Walmart. If you keep digging, you'll quickly run out of "non-questionable" jobs. You are definitely welcome to blame the employer for their actions, policies, and decisions, but it's not fair to say "Well Jonny over there once worked at a company that I have an objection to, so he should never be allowed to have a job again!"
    - fennecfoxen 5y ago
      It's the place he draws the line because it is the place that organized labor has always drawn the line: wherever anyone challenges the organization. In this the grandparent poster continues an ancient organized-labor tradition, one which once dynamited homes, beat and blinded men, hung them in effigy, insulted and harassed their families, often without a shred of sympathy. For this simple reason you should harbor doubts that there is a real principle behind the thing. David Dick, of Old Forge PA, letter to the Scranton Tribune, 1902: "A short time ago, my son, James Dick, had his home attacked at night by an angry mob. The windows were smashed and the house so damaged that he had to move his family out and come to my place for shelter. Now, why these depredations? Because my son and I try to earn a living for our families..." JR Gorman, employee of Exeter Shaft, West Pittston: "They hung me in effigy and hooted me in the street. I had to go armed." Of a miner named John Colson: "Five years before he had been in a mine explosion... Colson had been taken from the mine for dead, but he finally lived, blue-scarred, wholly blind in one eye and almost blind in the other... [W]ith the strike came hard times, and [his] sons, though willing to help their parents, had many mouths of their own to feed ... so that old John Colson was compelled to go back into the mine. He told me he was doing [an African-American's] job, turning a fan in a deep working, and he earned only 75 cents a day, but he was glad to be employed again." Of the mob that attacked John Colson: "The police had warned him of his danger, and he had, indeed, already been stoned, and yet, naturally fearless, he was going back alone. Having a revolver, he thought he could defend himself. A trainload of soft coal was passing; a mob of men appeared, shouting at him threateningly. He reached to draw his revolver, and a man on one of the cars dropped a huge block of coal on his head. Colson fell in his tracks, and after further beating him, the mob robbed him of his revolver and a new pair of boots, and left him for dead. For three days he lay unconscious in the hospital..." John Colson's mother: "He might better be dead, for he's brought disgrace on the name... He deserved all he got. He wasn't raised a scab." — McClure's Magazine, XX, November 1902 http://moses.law.umn.edu/darrow/documents/Right%20to%20work.pdf http://moses.law.umn.edu/darrow/documents/Right%20to%20work.... 120 years later, the enemy of the Union is still systematically Otherized, and deserves to have his life destroyed. Don't worry! All the abuses of capital, the Pinkerton stories you've heard of? Those, and worse, are all quite real too!
clavicat 5y ago
I ain’t giving up my Fruit Loops for nothing.
- SuoDuanDao 5y ago
  Surely though, fruit loops could be produced more easily without paying for Kellog branding? Pirated cereals as it were? Heh, reminds me of a song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww5l5BAJ39A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww5l5BAJ39A
  - DerekL 5y ago
    That's pretty common, actually. For instance, Malt-O-Meal Tootie Fruities. https://www.maltomeal.com/products/tootie-fruities/ https://www.maltomeal.com/products/tootie-fruities/ Also, both Kellogg's and Post make shredded wheat and Raisin Bran.
lovich 5y ago
> Use collective bargaining to hold their feet to the fire. This is literally in reply to the company firing all the workers who used collective bargaining.
- literallyaduck 5y ago
  How many Code of Conducts have been added to repository since people have been asking for them? The collective bargaining I was suggesting was to talk with your own companies which have a business relationship to Kellog. Work in a hotel that has minicereal boxes? Get with purchasing to stock a different brand. Work in a grocery? Ask the owners to stock a different brand on a public forum. See Kellogg flakes at a friend's or family's house? Ask them politely not to support union busting. Daily call one local business until they agree not to stock Kelloggs.
wonderwonder 5y ago
If someone is struggling to feed their family on $10 and hour and they can get a job on the Kellogs line for $20 an hour essentially changing their life and that of their kids, they are a bad person and should be punished for the rest of their lives? This makes absolutely no sense and you are imposing your moralistic world view on others who most likely don't enjoy the financial freedoms that you do. Family comes first over everything. Also all collective bargaining accomplished in this case is to get everyone fired and 1400 open positions.
- jwmhjwmh 5y ago
  The root problem is that this person is struggling to feed their family. If workers had a little more freedom, they wouldn't have to worry so much about finding work ASAP. The suggestion isn't necessarily moralistic. It's just a way to bring about collective action. In a strike, workers are sacrificing their immediate benefit for greater benefit in the long term. Workers generally win concessions through collective action. It didn't work here because unions in the U.S. are weak. If workers were better organized, they would have stood a better chance. Well organized labor benefits society as a whole; just look at the Nordic countries.
mrkentutbabi 5y ago
Oh man thankfully you don’t run as politicians. We have enough dumpster in the fire already lmao.
likpok 5y ago
Why would a company's management be aligned with the workers here? If you're hiring people to run your food production factory "crosses a picket line" seems like a good thing. Collective bargaining might help, but even Kellogg's union isn't capable of doing much -- only one factory is striking. Why would an unaffiliated union spend huge resources on helping Kellogg workers rather than its own members?
- user-the-name 5y ago
  > Why would a company's management be aligned with the workers here? Because otherwise unions will target them, in turn, with worker's actions. That is how union power works in places that have real, functioning unions. Unions protect workers against exploitations, and that is good for everyone.

nrmitchi 5y ago

> don't hire anyone who started working there after the labor dispute happened. I kind of see the point that you're trying to make, but I'm sure you understand that not everyone is in the same position to pick and choose jobs that the majority of HN find themselves in. Often when someone takes a job, it's because they need a job in order to live. It's pretty shitty of you to suggest that that individual should be barred from future employment because they had to take a job that was available, even if the reason it was available is disagreeable.

wayoutthere 5y ago
Scab jobs are a negotiating tactic; they’re very temporary and that should be known. This strike will eventually be over and they’ll fire the scabs immediately (and the scabs will be blacklisted). Taking one of those jobs does nothing to advance a person’s position and in fact will probably leave them worse off.
- nrmitchi 5y ago
  > Taking one of those jobs does nothing to advance a person’s position I don't believe that anyone taking these positions are doing it in order to advance their career. > will probably leave them worse off Worse than homeless, starving, and possibly dead?
ryandrake 5y ago
You could say the same thing about the whole spectrum of ethically questionable jobs. I think we can all agree that there is at least some point on that spectrum where "Well, I needed a job" is an unacceptable excuse. We're currently living in one of those rare times where there are a lot of non-questionable jobs going unfilled, and employers are a little uncomfortable with the number of job vacancies. So, if you have to take a job, there are currently plenty out there that keep your hands clean of strike-busting.
- nrmitchi 5y ago
  > You could say the same thing about the whole spectrum of ethically questionable jobs. I think we can all agree that there is at least some point on that spectrum where "Well, I needed a job" is an unacceptable excuse. Sure, but "ethically questionable jobs" is a pretty massive spectrum, and I'm not sure that I would agree that "making cereal during a labor dispute" meets the line of "to unethical for me" for the majority of people. > So, if you have to take a job, there are currently plenty out there that keep your hands clean of strike-busting. So is strike-busting the only place you draw the line? What about having to take a job at Hobby-Lobby? Or Chick-fil-a? Amazon has some some pretty sleezy stuff, so you don't want to support them. Walmart employees often depend on food stamps, and you should keep your hands clean of supporting a company that treats it's employees so poorly. There are tons of jobs that you could take in order to keep food on your table that aren't Kellogg, or Hobby-Lobby, or Chick-fil-a, or Amazon, or Walmart. If you keep digging, you'll quickly run out of "non-questionable" jobs. You are definitely welcome to blame the employer for their actions, policies, and decisions, but it's not fair to say "Well Jonny over there once worked at a company that I have an objection to, so he should never be allowed to have a job again!"
  - fennecfoxen 5y ago
    It's the place he draws the line because it is the place that organized labor has always drawn the line: wherever anyone challenges the organization. In this the grandparent poster continues an ancient organized-labor tradition, one which once dynamited homes, beat and blinded men, hung them in effigy, insulted and harassed their families, often without a shred of sympathy. For this simple reason you should harbor doubts that there is a real principle behind the thing. David Dick, of Old Forge PA, letter to the Scranton Tribune, 1902: "A short time ago, my son, James Dick, had his home attacked at night by an angry mob. The windows were smashed and the house so damaged that he had to move his family out and come to my place for shelter. Now, why these depredations? Because my son and I try to earn a living for our families..." JR Gorman, employee of Exeter Shaft, West Pittston: "They hung me in effigy and hooted me in the street. I had to go armed." Of a miner named John Colson: "Five years before he had been in a mine explosion... Colson had been taken from the mine for dead, but he finally lived, blue-scarred, wholly blind in one eye and almost blind in the other... [W]ith the strike came hard times, and [his] sons, though willing to help their parents, had many mouths of their own to feed ... so that old John Colson was compelled to go back into the mine. He told me he was doing [an African-American's] job, turning a fan in a deep working, and he earned only 75 cents a day, but he was glad to be employed again." Of the mob that attacked John Colson: "The police had warned him of his danger, and he had, indeed, already been stoned, and yet, naturally fearless, he was going back alone. Having a revolver, he thought he could defend himself. A trainload of soft coal was passing; a mob of men appeared, shouting at him threateningly. He reached to draw his revolver, and a man on one of the cars dropped a huge block of coal on his head. Colson fell in his tracks, and after further beating him, the mob robbed him of his revolver and a new pair of boots, and left him for dead. For three days he lay unconscious in the hospital..." John Colson's mother: "He might better be dead, for he's brought disgrace on the name... He deserved all he got. He wasn't raised a scab." — McClure's Magazine, XX, November 1902 http://moses.law.umn.edu/darrow/documents/Right%20to%20work.pdf http://moses.law.umn.edu/darrow/documents/Right%20to%20work.... 120 years later, the enemy of the Union is still systematically Otherized, and deserves to have his life destroyed. Don't worry! All the abuses of capital, the Pinkerton stories you've heard of? Those, and worse, are all quite real too!

clavicat 5y ago

I ain’t giving up my Fruit Loops for nothing.

SuoDuanDao 5y ago
Surely though, fruit loops could be produced more easily without paying for Kellog branding? Pirated cereals as it were? Heh, reminds me of a song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww5l5BAJ39A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww5l5BAJ39A
- DerekL 5y ago
  That's pretty common, actually. For instance, Malt-O-Meal Tootie Fruities. https://www.maltomeal.com/products/tootie-fruities/ https://www.maltomeal.com/products/tootie-fruities/ Also, both Kellogg's and Post make shredded wheat and Raisin Bran.

lovich 5y ago

> Use collective bargaining to hold their feet to the fire. This is literally in reply to the company firing all the workers who used collective bargaining.

literallyaduck 5y ago
How many Code of Conducts have been added to repository since people have been asking for them? The collective bargaining I was suggesting was to talk with your own companies which have a business relationship to Kellog. Work in a hotel that has minicereal boxes? Get with purchasing to stock a different brand. Work in a grocery? Ask the owners to stock a different brand on a public forum. See Kellogg flakes at a friend's or family's house? Ask them politely not to support union busting. Daily call one local business until they agree not to stock Kelloggs.

wonderwonder 5y ago

If someone is struggling to feed their family on $10 and hour and they can get a job on the Kellogs line for $20 an hour essentially changing their life and that of their kids, they are a bad person and should be punished for the rest of their lives? This makes absolutely no sense and you are imposing your moralistic world view on others who most likely don't enjoy the financial freedoms that you do. Family comes first over everything. Also all collective bargaining accomplished in this case is to get everyone fired and 1400 open positions.

jwmhjwmh 5y ago
The root problem is that this person is struggling to feed their family. If workers had a little more freedom, they wouldn't have to worry so much about finding work ASAP. The suggestion isn't necessarily moralistic. It's just a way to bring about collective action. In a strike, workers are sacrificing their immediate benefit for greater benefit in the long term. Workers generally win concessions through collective action. It didn't work here because unions in the U.S. are weak. If workers were better organized, they would have stood a better chance. Well organized labor benefits society as a whole; just look at the Nordic countries.

mrkentutbabi 5y ago

Oh man thankfully you don’t run as politicians. We have enough dumpster in the fire already lmao.

likpok 5y ago

Why would a company's management be aligned with the workers here? If you're hiring people to run your food production factory "crosses a picket line" seems like a good thing. Collective bargaining might help, but even Kellogg's union isn't capable of doing much -- only one factory is striking. Why would an unaffiliated union spend huge resources on helping Kellogg workers rather than its own members?

user-the-name 5y ago
> Why would a company's management be aligned with the workers here? Because otherwise unions will target them, in turn, with worker's actions. That is how union power works in places that have real, functioning unions. Unions protect workers against exploitations, and that is good for everyone.