7 ms·

It's a bit of a sad sacrifice, though. Nothing (significant) has changed about the US's imperialism as a result of his disclosures, it's just mildly more acknow

It's a bit of a sad sacrifice, though. Nothing (significant) has changed about the US's imperialism as a result of his disclosures, it's just mildly more acknowledged.

goodpoint 5y ago
> mildly more acknowledged This is already a very big achievement for just one individual. How many people, activist or not, have been killed without anybody noticing?
h0l0cube 5y ago
Much was made of upholding the promise to withdraw troops from the Middle East in the last US election. You can bet Collateral Murder and a number of other Wikileaks publications helped sway public opinion of the US military presence in the Middle East
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
user3939382 5y ago
The sad part is how few people even know what he published, especially juxtaposed with his sacrifice. If I go talk to the average person about Snowden or Assange they know little to nothing about what they revealed.
- enriquto 5y ago
  > If I go talk to the average person about Snowden or Assange they know little to nothing about what they revealed. You are doing good, then. Need to keep talking to more people!
  - hellojesus 5y ago
    I agree, but to me it's troubling so many people simply don't care. Every time I try to talk to my wife about what the government's doing/has done, she stops me and says, "I really don't care. So long as I can keep living my life without interference, why would I care?" This also happens when I try to explain basic economics to her. I find most people I talk to simply don't care so long as they get to enjoy living their dreamy lives.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
pydry 5y ago
I think he probably had more of an effect than is obvious. Activism raises the political price to governments of making bad decisions. When the powerful change their position as a result of activism, they always try conceal it - the effect is far in excess of what they let on. In that light, I always found this story of the 6 scared, cold, humiliated and alone mothers of soldiers protesting outside the White House preventing nuclear war with Vietnam somewhat inspiring. https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-protest-works-just-look-at-the-proof-2119310.html https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-har... (The connection is tenuous, but it's not completely unreasonable.)
- zepto 5y ago
  In assange’e case, the opposite is true. They were avoiding paying the cost before his leaks. Now the reputational damage is done and so there is less for them to avoid.
- sharikous 5y ago
  It very much depends on the context. In this particular case the US government managed to establish a deterrence too my making him an example. So I would say the effect is actually in the other direction. That is less activism of that type, not more. And the connection is not only tenuous. You are making a very general mild claim based on scant evidence. Your consideration is valid but very weak.
  - Retric 5y ago
    Activism isn’t the point. Yes, governments make it hard and will go so far as to actually kill people. It’s still a moderating influence and a feedback mechanism before civil war. I may not agree with them or even care about the issue, but I still respect the sacrifice.
lenkite 5y ago
Most left journalists were dancing in joy when Assange got arrested. They never forgave him for exposing the Clinton emails and ensured he was heavily character assassinated over the next several years. He also became a victim of the #MeToo movement at its height. He was openly called evil/narcissist/etc in many "opinion" pieces. All the other important stuff he revealed never got the level of attention it deserved.
- elif 5y ago
  Yep. 100% this. After 2016, i went from getting "oh you radical crazy commie" looks wearing a wikileaks shirt to immediately "oh you're a republican, let me guess you listen to alex jones and joe rogan?"
  - alexvoda 5y ago
    I believe somewhere in here lies a fundamental problem with today's society. We have reached an absurd level of polarization. Any opinion you hold that is in contradiction with someone else's opinion, qualifies you for membership of the opposing camp. We should really work on depolarisation.
    - user743 5y ago
      The establishment is the enemy, not each other. Also, I'm not sure where this "keep friends and family separate from business" idealogy came from, but business is just organizing production. If we're not going to try to hold those keys with our friends and family, then elites will hold them for us. Side note-no actual progress can come until there is sound money again.
      - TakuYam 5y ago
        > The establishment is the enemy, not each other. The problem with the premise that the establishment is a lot like The Matrix. Some people are so hopelessly enamoured with the establishment that they will do whatever it takes to defend it.
hota_mazi 5y ago
You're forgetting he tried to reach asylum but was stopped midway, and while he was stuck in limbo, he applied for multiple asylums, all of which were rejected. Not really the mark of someone who wanted to be a martyr as opposed to someone like Navalny, for example. More an indication of someone who didn't really know what he's doing and became an accidental but very effective Russian agent who ended up being a major contributor to shaking the very foundations of democracy in America.
- chx 5y ago
  This is what so many people forget -- he almost surely (but frankly, even the contrary wouldn't surprise me any more) didn't start out as a Russian agent but most certainly became one.

It's a bit of a sad sacrifice, though. Nothing (significant) has changed about the US's imperialism as a result of his disclosures, it's just mildly more acknowledged.

goodpoint 5y ago

> mildly more acknowledged This is already a very big achievement for just one individual. How many people, activist or not, have been killed without anybody noticing?

h0l0cube 5y ago

Much was made of upholding the promise to withdraw troops from the Middle East in the last US election. You can bet Collateral Murder and a number of other Wikileaks publications helped sway public opinion of the US military presence in the Middle East

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

user3939382 5y ago

The sad part is how few people even know what he published, especially juxtaposed with his sacrifice. If I go talk to the average person about Snowden or Assange they know little to nothing about what they revealed.

enriquto 5y ago
> If I go talk to the average person about Snowden or Assange they know little to nothing about what they revealed. You are doing good, then. Need to keep talking to more people!
- hellojesus 5y ago
  I agree, but to me it's troubling so many people simply don't care. Every time I try to talk to my wife about what the government's doing/has done, she stops me and says, "I really don't care. So long as I can keep living my life without interference, why would I care?" This also happens when I try to explain basic economics to her. I find most people I talk to simply don't care so long as they get to enjoy living their dreamy lives.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

pydry 5y ago

I think he probably had more of an effect than is obvious. Activism raises the political price to governments of making bad decisions. When the powerful change their position as a result of activism, they always try conceal it - the effect is far in excess of what they let on. In that light, I always found this story of the 6 scared, cold, humiliated and alone mothers of soldiers protesting outside the White House preventing nuclear war with Vietnam somewhat inspiring. https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-protest-works-just-look-at-the-proof-2119310.html https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-har... (The connection is tenuous, but it's not completely unreasonable.)

zepto 5y ago
In assange’e case, the opposite is true. They were avoiding paying the cost before his leaks. Now the reputational damage is done and so there is less for them to avoid.
sharikous 5y ago
It very much depends on the context. In this particular case the US government managed to establish a deterrence too my making him an example. So I would say the effect is actually in the other direction. That is less activism of that type, not more. And the connection is not only tenuous. You are making a very general mild claim based on scant evidence. Your consideration is valid but very weak.
- Retric 5y ago
  Activism isn’t the point. Yes, governments make it hard and will go so far as to actually kill people. It’s still a moderating influence and a feedback mechanism before civil war. I may not agree with them or even care about the issue, but I still respect the sacrifice.

lenkite 5y ago

Most left journalists were dancing in joy when Assange got arrested. They never forgave him for exposing the Clinton emails and ensured he was heavily character assassinated over the next several years. He also became a victim of the #MeToo movement at its height. He was openly called evil/narcissist/etc in many "opinion" pieces. All the other important stuff he revealed never got the level of attention it deserved.

elif 5y ago
Yep. 100% this. After 2016, i went from getting "oh you radical crazy commie" looks wearing a wikileaks shirt to immediately "oh you're a republican, let me guess you listen to alex jones and joe rogan?"
- alexvoda 5y ago
  I believe somewhere in here lies a fundamental problem with today's society. We have reached an absurd level of polarization. Any opinion you hold that is in contradiction with someone else's opinion, qualifies you for membership of the opposing camp. We should really work on depolarisation.
  - user743 5y ago
    The establishment is the enemy, not each other. Also, I'm not sure where this "keep friends and family separate from business" idealogy came from, but business is just organizing production. If we're not going to try to hold those keys with our friends and family, then elites will hold them for us. Side note-no actual progress can come until there is sound money again.
    - TakuYam 5y ago
      > The establishment is the enemy, not each other. The problem with the premise that the establishment is a lot like The Matrix. Some people are so hopelessly enamoured with the establishment that they will do whatever it takes to defend it.

hota_mazi 5y ago

You're forgetting he tried to reach asylum but was stopped midway, and while he was stuck in limbo, he applied for multiple asylums, all of which were rejected. Not really the mark of someone who wanted to be a martyr as opposed to someone like Navalny, for example. More an indication of someone who didn't really know what he's doing and became an accidental but very effective Russian agent who ended up being a major contributor to shaking the very foundations of democracy in America.

chx 5y ago
This is what so many people forget -- he almost surely (but frankly, even the contrary wouldn't surprise me any more) didn't start out as a Russian agent but most certainly became one.