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There is no decision left to make once this change goes through. You can talk about improved security all you want, but the fact remains that uBlock Origin will

by veeti 5y ago

There is no decision left to make once this change goes through. You can talk about improved security all you want, but the fact remains that uBlock Origin will be permanently crippled. This by far negates any security or privacy gain that Manifest v3 could possibly make. Switch to Firefox.

hyperman1 5y ago
This is in fact one of the best arguments pro to do the change: * Chrome destroys ad blocking * Advanced users now suffer the same internet as everyone else * Advanced users will find a solution, and that solution can't be chrome anymore * This starts an exodus of advanced users . * Advanced users configure the browsers for everybody else, hence everybody else also joins the exodus The end result is less of a monopoly. This is the same mechanism that ultimately killed of IE and moved everybody to chrome: The monopoly of the time got so arrogant they didn't listen to their users, so users fled to a better alternative. The strange thing is, groups of people have more or less the same tolerance for abuse, know their limits have already been violated for a while, and learn alternatives from each other. As a result, It takes a long time of abuse to trigger an exodus, but when it started, it starts everywhere at the same time. Then the abuser tries stopping the exodus by rolling back only the last change, but that's not enough anymore.
- piokoch 5y ago
  Looking in the internet I see that "94% of Mozilla revenues came through royalties received by search engines to be featured on its Mozilla Firefox browser" I am afraid that at some point Mozilla can be forced to comply and cripple ad blockers too. Hopefully someone will decide to come up with a totally new browser. I remember times when BitKeeper told Linus that they will somehow try to charge for using their tool to keep Linux kernel source code (can't remember the story, but they managed to irritate Linus, delicately speaking). Linus sat down and started coding... and created Git. Unfortunately browser is a more complicated piece of software, but maybe this is also a problem we should solve.
  - EMM_386 5y ago
    > Hopefully someone will decide to come up with a totally new browser. The enormous complexity of browsers these days makes this almost impossible. A better solution would be for Mozilla to direct all funding directly to Firefox and try to find other ways to monetize the browser. Brave is trying one approach but now they are also tied to the underlying Chromium engine. I am not sure what the effort will be like to try to maintain a fork that ignores Manifest v3.
  - Vinnl 5y ago
    Alternative sources of income are growing - the share of search engine deals was down to 86% last year, apparently: https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/rcc7m6/mozilla_again_with_a_profit_in_2020/ https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/rcc7m6/mozilla_aga...
    - vin047 5y ago
      Perhaps Mozilla should put the more advanced features and customisation options behind a monthly subscription. I know people dislike monthly subscriptions, but the browser is perhaps THE most important tool you can use. Maybe it's time we start valuing it properly.
      - belorn 5y ago
        The share of those profits that goes to Firefox development is far less than one might think, especially if one consider the many millions that goes to management of Mozilla foundation. Firefox would be a very different project if all the royalties received by search engines featured in the Firefox browser went to improve Firefox. As long profits from Firefox does not goes back into developing Firefox, a monthly subscription wouldn't change things.
- 74B5 5y ago
  Unfortunately, Mozilla does not have a track record of listening to their user base too and afaik they never had any monopoly. They just pushed their Track/Ad-Features out of desperation(?), which leads to the root of the problem: commodification of common goods like privacy and its resulting degradation.
amelius 5y ago
> Switch to Firefox. And if you're a webmaster, add some crippling/inconveniencing logic if user agent equals chrome.
- knob 5y ago
  I despise Chrome. Yet I oppose your suggestion. Lets be above that.
  - amelius 5y ago
    You don't win this fight for freedom by not playing the same game as the big corporations. > Google throttles the load time of non-AMP ads by giving them artificial one-second delays in order to give Google AMP a “nice comparative boost.” https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28975443 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28975443

by veeti 5y ago

hyperman1 5y ago

This is in fact one of the best arguments pro to do the change: * Chrome destroys ad blocking * Advanced users now suffer the same internet as everyone else * Advanced users will find a solution, and that solution can't be chrome anymore * This starts an exodus of advanced users . * Advanced users configure the browsers for everybody else, hence everybody else also joins the exodus The end result is less of a monopoly. This is the same mechanism that ultimately killed of IE and moved everybody to chrome: The monopoly of the time got so arrogant they didn't listen to their users, so users fled to a better alternative. The strange thing is, groups of people have more or less the same tolerance for abuse, know their limits have already been violated for a while, and learn alternatives from each other. As a result, It takes a long time of abuse to trigger an exodus, but when it started, it starts everywhere at the same time. Then the abuser tries stopping the exodus by rolling back only the last change, but that's not enough anymore.

piokoch 5y ago
Looking in the internet I see that "94% of Mozilla revenues came through royalties received by search engines to be featured on its Mozilla Firefox browser" I am afraid that at some point Mozilla can be forced to comply and cripple ad blockers too. Hopefully someone will decide to come up with a totally new browser. I remember times when BitKeeper told Linus that they will somehow try to charge for using their tool to keep Linux kernel source code (can't remember the story, but they managed to irritate Linus, delicately speaking). Linus sat down and started coding... and created Git. Unfortunately browser is a more complicated piece of software, but maybe this is also a problem we should solve.
- EMM_386 5y ago
  > Hopefully someone will decide to come up with a totally new browser. The enormous complexity of browsers these days makes this almost impossible. A better solution would be for Mozilla to direct all funding directly to Firefox and try to find other ways to monetize the browser. Brave is trying one approach but now they are also tied to the underlying Chromium engine. I am not sure what the effort will be like to try to maintain a fork that ignores Manifest v3.
- Vinnl 5y ago
  Alternative sources of income are growing - the share of search engine deals was down to 86% last year, apparently: https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/rcc7m6/mozilla_again_with_a_profit_in_2020/ https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/rcc7m6/mozilla_aga...
  - vin047 5y ago
    Perhaps Mozilla should put the more advanced features and customisation options behind a monthly subscription. I know people dislike monthly subscriptions, but the browser is perhaps THE most important tool you can use. Maybe it's time we start valuing it properly.
    - belorn 5y ago
      The share of those profits that goes to Firefox development is far less than one might think, especially if one consider the many millions that goes to management of Mozilla foundation. Firefox would be a very different project if all the royalties received by search engines featured in the Firefox browser went to improve Firefox. As long profits from Firefox does not goes back into developing Firefox, a monthly subscription wouldn't change things.
74B5 5y ago
Unfortunately, Mozilla does not have a track record of listening to their user base too and afaik they never had any monopoly. They just pushed their Track/Ad-Features out of desperation(?), which leads to the root of the problem: commodification of common goods like privacy and its resulting degradation.

amelius 5y ago

> Switch to Firefox. And if you're a webmaster, add some crippling/inconveniencing logic if user agent equals chrome.

knob 5y ago
I despise Chrome. Yet I oppose your suggestion. Lets be above that.
- amelius 5y ago
  You don't win this fight for freedom by not playing the same game as the big corporations. > Google throttles the load time of non-AMP ads by giving them artificial one-second delays in order to give Google AMP a “nice comparative boost.” https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28975443 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28975443