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GDPR and the upcoming online safety bill and the EU's digital economy regulations makes it nearly impossible for almost anyone to run a forum. That is now only

GDPR and the upcoming online safety bill and the EU's digital economy regulations makes it nearly impossible for almost anyone to run a forum. That is now only possible by big tech.

upofadown 5y ago
Couldn't the person running the forum simply not abuse their users by not exploiting their personal data for commercial gain? How hard is that?
- worldofmatthew 5y ago
  GDPR is harder than that, there is a bunch of legal stuff and having to have someone legally responsible to follow the more vague parts of the GDPR. GDPR is not just "not exploiting their personal data for commercial gain" but a lot of busy work with massive fines if you make any mistakes. How is most community forums going to work with that?
  - pjc50 5y ago
    Fines are proportional to turnover, and you don't get fined if you don't have any turnover. People are very scared of GDPR in a way that doesn't reflect the actual enforcement! You do have to avoid leaking, though; it's effectively a requirement to do information security.
    - worldofmatthew 5y ago
      Its a max amount or a percentage of turnover, whichever is higher.
  - pbhjpbhj 5y ago
    I don't buy it -- GDPR is about protection of PII. Don't collect it, you're done. OK, slightly flippant might take half an afternoon of training for all staff. https://gdpr.eu/checklist/ https://gdpr.eu/checklist/
  - donmcronald 5y ago
    If I don't collect any PII, even to the point of not bothering with analytics, and the only cookies I use are for auth or other absolutely necessary functionality, are there GDPR rules I need to worry about?
    - estaseuropano 5y ago
      No. Various 'consultancies' will tell you otherwise, but the only thing you really need to provide is a chance for users to delete their data. Ideally also an option to extract/download it, but I don't think anyone has ever really been hassled for that. Contrary to all the BS the tech lobby says, you don't even have to have a cookie banner today I'd you don't collect datat beyond what is technically needed.
Zababa 5y ago
I don't understand why that would be the case. GDPR is mostly about personal data (that you don't really need for a forum). The online safety bill would at worst get your forum get blocked in the UK, but I haven't been able to find clear expectations for a forum outside of what I would call "regular moderation". I also didn't find much about the EU's digital economy regulations. Would you mind expanding on why it's nearly impossible for almost anyone to run a forum now?
- worldofmatthew 5y ago
  People can post a lot of personal information to an internet forum without asking the owner and even email addresses count as personal information. Labour and the Tories are trying to extend The online safety bill to put forum owner in prison if found to be causing harm (whatever that means) and you would have to pay for staff to monitor the forums 24/7 (no one is going to help out if they risk going to prison). All with a fuck ton of vagueness that can millions of pounds of fines. That will make it impossible for anyone but big tech to run online forums.
  - Grumbledour 5y ago
    People posting their PI on their own in public is however not something the GDPR really covers and so would not affect a forum operator. Leaking users email addresses is another thing of course, but was undesirable before there was GDPR. (Though it might be totally possible to run a forum without requiring email if one is really worried) You are not wrong though that running forums or any website with user generated content is becoming increasingly difficult for individuals, though the real culprits here on EU level are the recent copyright reform which requires you to remove infringing content quickly and the upcoming Anti-Terror regulation which requires removing content in one hour. Though it might be true, that many of these laws might be toothless against individuals or non-profits, even though they do not specially exclude them. But it really seems lawmakers don't think much of the internet beyond facebook, twitter and google.
    - estaseuropano 5y ago
hosteur 5y ago
Why is that? Don’t you basically just need to stop collecting any data that is not put up there by the user itself? At least with regards to gdpr. I am in the process of starting a forum so I am quite curious to know if I am wrong in this?
kingnothing 5y ago
Why would a non-European forum operator care about GDPR?
- voakbasda 5y ago
  Exactly. If my US-based sites get a GPDR complaint, GeoIP blocks will go up and the entire EU can suck a lemon.
  - BeFlatXIII 5y ago
    Or just say, “sure fine us another €40million. How do you plan to make us pay?”
    - voakbasda 5y ago
      I have no idea of the status of potential treaties that cover these matters. If I start getting harassed, it’s much easier and safer to block them, rather than escalating things in a direction that could end up in extradition. I would not trust the US government to protect me. But I like your sentiment.
BeFlatXIII 5y ago
If you’re a private American with no EU-based assets, why should you care about GDPR? A US Congress that would enforce an EU fine is a Congress that no longer has legitimately to govern the US.

GDPR and the upcoming online safety bill and the EU's digital economy regulations makes it nearly impossible for almost anyone to run a forum. That is now only possible by big tech.

upofadown 5y ago

Couldn't the person running the forum simply not abuse their users by not exploiting their personal data for commercial gain? How hard is that?

worldofmatthew 5y ago
GDPR is harder than that, there is a bunch of legal stuff and having to have someone legally responsible to follow the more vague parts of the GDPR. GDPR is not just "not exploiting their personal data for commercial gain" but a lot of busy work with massive fines if you make any mistakes. How is most community forums going to work with that?
- pjc50 5y ago
  Fines are proportional to turnover, and you don't get fined if you don't have any turnover. People are very scared of GDPR in a way that doesn't reflect the actual enforcement! You do have to avoid leaking, though; it's effectively a requirement to do information security.
  - worldofmatthew 5y ago
    Its a max amount or a percentage of turnover, whichever is higher.
- pbhjpbhj 5y ago
  I don't buy it -- GDPR is about protection of PII. Don't collect it, you're done. OK, slightly flippant might take half an afternoon of training for all staff. https://gdpr.eu/checklist/ https://gdpr.eu/checklist/
- donmcronald 5y ago
  If I don't collect any PII, even to the point of not bothering with analytics, and the only cookies I use are for auth or other absolutely necessary functionality, are there GDPR rules I need to worry about?
  - estaseuropano 5y ago
    No. Various 'consultancies' will tell you otherwise, but the only thing you really need to provide is a chance for users to delete their data. Ideally also an option to extract/download it, but I don't think anyone has ever really been hassled for that. Contrary to all the BS the tech lobby says, you don't even have to have a cookie banner today I'd you don't collect datat beyond what is technically needed.

Zababa 5y ago

I don't understand why that would be the case. GDPR is mostly about personal data (that you don't really need for a forum). The online safety bill would at worst get your forum get blocked in the UK, but I haven't been able to find clear expectations for a forum outside of what I would call "regular moderation". I also didn't find much about the EU's digital economy regulations. Would you mind expanding on why it's nearly impossible for almost anyone to run a forum now?

worldofmatthew 5y ago
People can post a lot of personal information to an internet forum without asking the owner and even email addresses count as personal information. Labour and the Tories are trying to extend The online safety bill to put forum owner in prison if found to be causing harm (whatever that means) and you would have to pay for staff to monitor the forums 24/7 (no one is going to help out if they risk going to prison). All with a fuck ton of vagueness that can millions of pounds of fines. That will make it impossible for anyone but big tech to run online forums.
- Grumbledour 5y ago
  People posting their PI on their own in public is however not something the GDPR really covers and so would not affect a forum operator. Leaking users email addresses is another thing of course, but was undesirable before there was GDPR. (Though it might be totally possible to run a forum without requiring email if one is really worried) You are not wrong though that running forums or any website with user generated content is becoming increasingly difficult for individuals, though the real culprits here on EU level are the recent copyright reform which requires you to remove infringing content quickly and the upcoming Anti-Terror regulation which requires removing content in one hour. Though it might be true, that many of these laws might be toothless against individuals or non-profits, even though they do not specially exclude them. But it really seems lawmakers don't think much of the internet beyond facebook, twitter and google.
  - estaseuropano 5y ago

hosteur 5y ago

Why is that? Don’t you basically just need to stop collecting any data that is not put up there by the user itself? At least with regards to gdpr. I am in the process of starting a forum so I am quite curious to know if I am wrong in this?

kingnothing 5y ago

Why would a non-European forum operator care about GDPR?

voakbasda 5y ago
Exactly. If my US-based sites get a GPDR complaint, GeoIP blocks will go up and the entire EU can suck a lemon.
- BeFlatXIII 5y ago
  Or just say, “sure fine us another €40million. How do you plan to make us pay?”
  - voakbasda 5y ago
    I have no idea of the status of potential treaties that cover these matters. If I start getting harassed, it’s much easier and safer to block them, rather than escalating things in a direction that could end up in extradition. I would not trust the US government to protect me. But I like your sentiment.

BeFlatXIII 5y ago

If you’re a private American with no EU-based assets, why should you care about GDPR? A US Congress that would enforce an EU fine is a Congress that no longer has legitimately to govern the US.