9 ms·

Teachers and parents will say goodbye to public schools in 2022?

23 points by actfrench 5y ago

In LinkedIn's 29 Big Ideas that will change our world in 2022, released today, they say "Teachers (and parents) will say goodbye to public schools". What do people think? Do you agree? Disagree?

mtmail 5y ago
LinkdedIn's blog post https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/29-big-ideas-change-our-world-2022-linkedin-news/ https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/29-big-ideas-change-our-world... for reference
- actfrench 5y ago
  Awesome. Thank you!
kasey_junk 5y ago
Single data point. I pulled my kid out of public school due to the pandemic. Our big city public school system was frankly overwhelmed by the pandemic. It was a very painful decision for my family as we largely believe in public school as a policy directive but submitting my kid to the idiocy for another year, and asking me to deal with it as well, was just untenable.
- actfrench 5y ago
  Curious...did you think about educating your children yourself pre-pandemic? And was this the straw that broke the camel's back?
  - kasey_junk 5y ago
    No absolutely not. I honestly believe teaching is a capital P profesion and neither me or my wife has the training nor inclination to be full time teachers. The final straw was the school districts covid protocols for the 2021/2022 school year which made it obvious that they weren’t optimizing for student health, student learning or parent convenience. Instead it was some mix of federal guidelines, school district convenience & teachers union edict. Those things might be the most important thing for public policy but as a privileged participant I could opt out.
    - wildrhythms 5y ago
      What exactly would you have done differently with regard to student health, student learning, and parent convenience?
    - actfrench 5y ago
      interesting. Have there been any aspects to homeschooling that you've enjoyed or do you think you'll return to school once/if the protocols you're looking for come into place.
trinovantes 5y ago
I've always been under the impression that schools are just glorified day cares. Even though research has shown later start times (and thus more sleep) improve learning, many governments still keep start times in sync with 9-5 work times.
- mlyle 5y ago
  I think later start times are good. On the other hand, if the typical student needs to get to care synchronized with the parents' work schedule, that's not going to get them more sleep.
- dominotw 5y ago
  yes. who says america doesn't have tax funded day care system. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/08/us/schools-closed-fridays-remote-learning.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/08/us/schools-closed-fridays...
- meristohm 5y ago
  Schools are also places of common suffering through which friendships may be formed.
- wildrhythms 5y ago
  School is only a glorified daycare for students when the desired societal outcome for them is to become a member of the 9-5 grind where the end goal is to eventually achieve a career akin to a middle-manager. It's no wonder America ranks 38th out of 71 countries in education[0] when public school funding has plateaued since 1997[1]... how do we expect students to explore and grow while they're relegated to learning whatever is left after every single soft-science related course and elective has been cut away? As a sidenote, teachers in my state start at $35k... for a profession that requires a degree and special training, that is pathetic and deserves to be a national shame. [0] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-student... [1]https://apps.urban.org/features/education-funding-trends/ https://apps.urban.org/features/education-funding-trends/
stolenmerch 5y ago
I sort of hope so. Starting my child in Kindergarten this year has soured me to public schools somewhat. Nonsensical mask/distancing/sanitation protocols for people at low or no risk with no end in sight and seemingly dictated by the teachers' unions. Rudimentary and remedial math and reading education my child already learned in preschool just to catch every kid up to a common core. Cancelling fun holiday traditions in the name of equity and replacing them with bland, institutional versions (Halloween banned and replaced with a November "disguise day"). Most days my child comes home complaining how boring everything is and it kind of breaks my heart. I thought it'd be this inspirational learning center and instead it feels patronizing and mildly indoctrinating. Not sure there are other options though, so we'll make the most of it.
- dkdk8283 5y ago
  It %100 is indoctrination. I have my own gripes with the public school system that go against woke culture but there is literally nothing I can do except pony up for a private education.
  - redthrow 5y ago
    How about homeschooling? https://www.econlib.org/emergency-homeschooling-a-how-to-guide/ https://www.econlib.org/emergency-homeschooling-a-how-to-gui...
    - actfrench 5y ago
      Or modular learning? I'm trying to advance the idea that there's a better word that better defines a decentralized approach to education which is not school at home, but school out in the world, drawing on the best resources available for each child's individual education https://manisharoses.medium.com/not-school-or-homeschooling-but-modular-learning-5233927f8fc9 https://manisharoses.medium.com/not-school-or-homeschooling-...
      - redthrow 5y ago
        Well there's "unschool", if you want a term that emphasizes that it's not school, but the way it's done is way more important than whatever it ends up being called. As Caplan mentions in the above post, he's troubled by unschoolers' subpar math skills, linking to a post citing a study. I don't think the blog post you cited addresses that point (among other points).
legerdemain 5y ago
Absolutely agree, 100%. - Children don't need enforced injections for COVID (or anything else, for that matter). - Children don't need to be indoctrinated into the religion of Critical Race Theory. - Children don't need to spend cumulative years in a classroom reading trashy, heart-jerking melodramas and stage plays in ancient English. They can discover important touchstones like Orwell, Heinlein, and Bradbury for themselves. - They don't need any subjects other than math, which is the only discipline they will carry with them into adult occupations in the skilled trades (or college, for the few who are intellectually and attitudinally suited for it).
- cercatrova 5y ago
  This has to be a joke, especially the last point. I don't want to live in a society where the only subject people know is mathematics.
  - legerdemain 5y ago
    Which other subjects would you want children to waste years in a cramped classroom being lectured about? Basically anything worth learning is worth discovering for yourself. Math is the only important exception, as it is uniquely important in modern life, and it doesn't come to most people naturally.
    - frankbreetz 5y ago
      Reading and science
      - legerdemain 5y ago
        Show me a school curriculum that actually teaches how academic science is done today, instead of making students memorize laundry lists of inaccurate and outdated factoids about cell biology, nutrition, psychology, chemistry...
        5y ago
cercatrova 5y ago
Sounds pretty terrible to me. Public schooling ensures that the citizenry have at least some modicum of education. Private schooling, homeschooling, and religious schooling, does not offer that same level of commitment to a science and history base education, because, well, they can teach whatever they want.
- actfrench 5y ago
  There is still no accountability in decentralized schooling, but that doesn't mean that there couldn't be. A lot of modular learners pull their kids out of school exactly because they want a deeper commitment to an education based on scientific inquiry and comprehensive, inclusive approach to history. You should check out SEA homeschoolers to see what they are doing. https://www.facebook.com/groups/seahomeschoolers https://www.facebook.com/groups/seahomeschoolers
muzani 5y ago
Private school was expensive, but my daughter learned a lot. As opposed to public schools which were overcrowded enough before the pandemic and didn't handle home learning well. Public school teachers were simply sending homework they found from Google every day, the private school ones put a lot of effort into things like activities and fun online quizzes. My daughter (2nd grade) managed to memorize literally every capital city and flag. When I asked her who her geography teacher was, she said "We didn't have geography this year. I learned it from YouTube." Ironically, no classes made her more interested in the topic. But you have to have class to have no classes. The kids were begging to go to school by the end of 2021, but didn't want to go early on. The absence of school made them want to learn even more. So I'm not sure if full home schooling is effective.
- cm2012 5y ago
  There's a decent amount of evidence that early schooling variation doesn't correlate to future achievement once you control for IQ, income, etc. This is supported by your anecdote.
buwka 5y ago
Shocked at some of these parents' responses regarding their sweeping characterization of public schools vs private schools. I despise this public vs private school debate since its just too broad of a scale. Given the reliance of American public education on local property values you have plenty of astonishing public schools. Unfortunately, a handful of miles down the road in the next neighborhood you may also have decrepit underfunded schools. When deciding where to live find a neighborhood that values education and takes pride in its school district. Unfortunately this may come at the cost of higher real estate values, but fundamentally the school your child attends will be one of the most defining aspects of their childhood. The local public schools here compensate their teachers significantly more than the private schools in the area. Furthermore, their average test scores are about a percentage less across all standardized tests while allowing of all backgrounds instead of having the ability to choose their student body like the private schools. I attended a public school but had many close friends in some of the private schools around me. In terms of college outcomes my friends from school and friends from the private schools attended similar pretentious schools. However, I feel that had I attended a private school I would have spent all my formative years in the same bubble of snobby traditions and deciding where to summer. My high school had plenty of astonishingly wealthy students but our culture was much more actively unimpressed when peers bought an s-class for their 16th or took their race car to school.
- pddpro 5y ago
  I think all these negative responses come from those who can afford a private school for their kids.
  - buwka 5y ago
    I think a better term may be those trying to “justify” their school choice. After their home one of the next largest choices, both financially and as a parent, is where to educate your children. Paying 50,000 a year and people will definitely justify it after the fact. Just because you have the disposable income doesn’t mean you should only like at private schools because that’s the expected thing to do.
ChrisArchitect 5y ago
Instead of random comment post why not share link to that list and content beneath? Where is this list of big ideas?
- actfrench 5y ago
  I wanted to talk about that particular idea and don’t think that you can have a comment with a link in a post.
  - actfrench 5y ago
    But it’s referenced above
  - grzm 5y ago
    Submit the link as a submission, and then add a comment with your comment.
    - actfrench 5y ago
      Good idea. I'll do that next time:) Thanks!
actfrench 5y ago
Also I truly hope that an end to public school would not mean an end to public education. Given how poorly our country provides childcare to parents, that is not a given. Ever optimistic , I hope we can move to a more modular, decentralized, public education system that has better childcare and learning too and is better able to serve the needs of unique communities. As pointed out in these comments, some public schools are pretty great considering it’s still one class in one place learning the same things the same ways. Others more resemble prisons where no learning is happening and teachers, kids and admins are miserable and underserved. Public education is critical to taking care and nurturing our children, exposing them to diverse ideas and scientific values, but that’s not happening in public schools for the most part today. Also the system itself is incredible stiff and slow to adapt to a changing world.
cafard 5y ago
You pay for the children your children go to school with, and for their parents. You might do it with tuition, you might do it with property tax. Maryland has one school system per county. In Montgomery County the schools are very different between the more prosperous and less prosperous areas. Years ago there was an eye-opening chart of the percentage grade needed get an A in algebra at various high schools.

23 points by actfrench 5y ago

In LinkedIn's 29 Big Ideas that will change our world in 2022, released today, they say "Teachers (and parents) will say goodbye to public schools". What do people think? Do you agree? Disagree?

mtmail 5y ago

LinkdedIn's blog post https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/29-big-ideas-change-our-world-2022-linkedin-news/ https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/29-big-ideas-change-our-world... for reference

actfrench 5y ago
Awesome. Thank you!

kasey_junk 5y ago

Single data point. I pulled my kid out of public school due to the pandemic. Our big city public school system was frankly overwhelmed by the pandemic. It was a very painful decision for my family as we largely believe in public school as a policy directive but submitting my kid to the idiocy for another year, and asking me to deal with it as well, was just untenable.

actfrench 5y ago
Curious...did you think about educating your children yourself pre-pandemic? And was this the straw that broke the camel's back?
- kasey_junk 5y ago
  No absolutely not. I honestly believe teaching is a capital P profesion and neither me or my wife has the training nor inclination to be full time teachers. The final straw was the school districts covid protocols for the 2021/2022 school year which made it obvious that they weren’t optimizing for student health, student learning or parent convenience. Instead it was some mix of federal guidelines, school district convenience & teachers union edict. Those things might be the most important thing for public policy but as a privileged participant I could opt out.
  - wildrhythms 5y ago
    What exactly would you have done differently with regard to student health, student learning, and parent convenience?
  - actfrench 5y ago
    interesting. Have there been any aspects to homeschooling that you've enjoyed or do you think you'll return to school once/if the protocols you're looking for come into place.

trinovantes 5y ago

I've always been under the impression that schools are just glorified day cares. Even though research has shown later start times (and thus more sleep) improve learning, many governments still keep start times in sync with 9-5 work times.

mlyle 5y ago
I think later start times are good. On the other hand, if the typical student needs to get to care synchronized with the parents' work schedule, that's not going to get them more sleep.
dominotw 5y ago
yes. who says america doesn't have tax funded day care system. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/08/us/schools-closed-fridays-remote-learning.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/08/us/schools-closed-fridays...
meristohm 5y ago
Schools are also places of common suffering through which friendships may be formed.
wildrhythms 5y ago
School is only a glorified daycare for students when the desired societal outcome for them is to become a member of the 9-5 grind where the end goal is to eventually achieve a career akin to a middle-manager. It's no wonder America ranks 38th out of 71 countries in education[0] when public school funding has plateaued since 1997[1]... how do we expect students to explore and grow while they're relegated to learning whatever is left after every single soft-science related course and elective has been cut away? As a sidenote, teachers in my state start at $35k... for a profession that requires a degree and special training, that is pathetic and deserves to be a national shame. [0] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-student... [1]https://apps.urban.org/features/education-funding-trends/ https://apps.urban.org/features/education-funding-trends/

stolenmerch 5y ago

I sort of hope so. Starting my child in Kindergarten this year has soured me to public schools somewhat. Nonsensical mask/distancing/sanitation protocols for people at low or no risk with no end in sight and seemingly dictated by the teachers' unions. Rudimentary and remedial math and reading education my child already learned in preschool just to catch every kid up to a common core. Cancelling fun holiday traditions in the name of equity and replacing them with bland, institutional versions (Halloween banned and replaced with a November "disguise day"). Most days my child comes home complaining how boring everything is and it kind of breaks my heart. I thought it'd be this inspirational learning center and instead it feels patronizing and mildly indoctrinating. Not sure there are other options though, so we'll make the most of it.

dkdk8283 5y ago
It %100 is indoctrination. I have my own gripes with the public school system that go against woke culture but there is literally nothing I can do except pony up for a private education.
- redthrow 5y ago
  How about homeschooling? https://www.econlib.org/emergency-homeschooling-a-how-to-guide/ https://www.econlib.org/emergency-homeschooling-a-how-to-gui...
  - actfrench 5y ago
    Or modular learning? I'm trying to advance the idea that there's a better word that better defines a decentralized approach to education which is not school at home, but school out in the world, drawing on the best resources available for each child's individual education https://manisharoses.medium.com/not-school-or-homeschooling-but-modular-learning-5233927f8fc9 https://manisharoses.medium.com/not-school-or-homeschooling-...
    - redthrow 5y ago
      Well there's "unschool", if you want a term that emphasizes that it's not school, but the way it's done is way more important than whatever it ends up being called. As Caplan mentions in the above post, he's troubled by unschoolers' subpar math skills, linking to a post citing a study. I don't think the blog post you cited addresses that point (among other points).

legerdemain 5y ago

Absolutely agree, 100%. - Children don't need enforced injections for COVID (or anything else, for that matter). - Children don't need to be indoctrinated into the religion of Critical Race Theory. - Children don't need to spend cumulative years in a classroom reading trashy, heart-jerking melodramas and stage plays in ancient English. They can discover important touchstones like Orwell, Heinlein, and Bradbury for themselves. - They don't need any subjects other than math, which is the only discipline they will carry with them into adult occupations in the skilled trades (or college, for the few who are intellectually and attitudinally suited for it).

cercatrova 5y ago
This has to be a joke, especially the last point. I don't want to live in a society where the only subject people know is mathematics.
- legerdemain 5y ago
  Which other subjects would you want children to waste years in a cramped classroom being lectured about? Basically anything worth learning is worth discovering for yourself. Math is the only important exception, as it is uniquely important in modern life, and it doesn't come to most people naturally.
  - frankbreetz 5y ago
    Reading and science
    - legerdemain 5y ago
      Show me a school curriculum that actually teaches how academic science is done today, instead of making students memorize laundry lists of inaccurate and outdated factoids about cell biology, nutrition, psychology, chemistry...
      - 5y ago

cercatrova 5y ago

Sounds pretty terrible to me. Public schooling ensures that the citizenry have at least some modicum of education. Private schooling, homeschooling, and religious schooling, does not offer that same level of commitment to a science and history base education, because, well, they can teach whatever they want.

actfrench 5y ago
There is still no accountability in decentralized schooling, but that doesn't mean that there couldn't be. A lot of modular learners pull their kids out of school exactly because they want a deeper commitment to an education based on scientific inquiry and comprehensive, inclusive approach to history. You should check out SEA homeschoolers to see what they are doing. https://www.facebook.com/groups/seahomeschoolers https://www.facebook.com/groups/seahomeschoolers

muzani 5y ago

Private school was expensive, but my daughter learned a lot. As opposed to public schools which were overcrowded enough before the pandemic and didn't handle home learning well. Public school teachers were simply sending homework they found from Google every day, the private school ones put a lot of effort into things like activities and fun online quizzes. My daughter (2nd grade) managed to memorize literally every capital city and flag. When I asked her who her geography teacher was, she said "We didn't have geography this year. I learned it from YouTube." Ironically, no classes made her more interested in the topic. But you have to have class to have no classes. The kids were begging to go to school by the end of 2021, but didn't want to go early on. The absence of school made them want to learn even more. So I'm not sure if full home schooling is effective.

cm2012 5y ago
There's a decent amount of evidence that early schooling variation doesn't correlate to future achievement once you control for IQ, income, etc. This is supported by your anecdote.

buwka 5y ago

Shocked at some of these parents' responses regarding their sweeping characterization of public schools vs private schools. I despise this public vs private school debate since its just too broad of a scale. Given the reliance of American public education on local property values you have plenty of astonishing public schools. Unfortunately, a handful of miles down the road in the next neighborhood you may also have decrepit underfunded schools. When deciding where to live find a neighborhood that values education and takes pride in its school district. Unfortunately this may come at the cost of higher real estate values, but fundamentally the school your child attends will be one of the most defining aspects of their childhood. The local public schools here compensate their teachers significantly more than the private schools in the area. Furthermore, their average test scores are about a percentage less across all standardized tests while allowing of all backgrounds instead of having the ability to choose their student body like the private schools. I attended a public school but had many close friends in some of the private schools around me. In terms of college outcomes my friends from school and friends from the private schools attended similar pretentious schools. However, I feel that had I attended a private school I would have spent all my formative years in the same bubble of snobby traditions and deciding where to summer. My high school had plenty of astonishingly wealthy students but our culture was much more actively unimpressed when peers bought an s-class for their 16th or took their race car to school.

pddpro 5y ago
I think all these negative responses come from those who can afford a private school for their kids.
- buwka 5y ago
  I think a better term may be those trying to “justify” their school choice. After their home one of the next largest choices, both financially and as a parent, is where to educate your children. Paying 50,000 a year and people will definitely justify it after the fact. Just because you have the disposable income doesn’t mean you should only like at private schools because that’s the expected thing to do.

ChrisArchitect 5y ago

Instead of random comment post why not share link to that list and content beneath? Where is this list of big ideas?

actfrench 5y ago
I wanted to talk about that particular idea and don’t think that you can have a comment with a link in a post.
- actfrench 5y ago
  But it’s referenced above
- grzm 5y ago
  Submit the link as a submission, and then add a comment with your comment.
  - actfrench 5y ago
    Good idea. I'll do that next time:) Thanks!

actfrench 5y ago

Also I truly hope that an end to public school would not mean an end to public education. Given how poorly our country provides childcare to parents, that is not a given. Ever optimistic , I hope we can move to a more modular, decentralized, public education system that has better childcare and learning too and is better able to serve the needs of unique communities. As pointed out in these comments, some public schools are pretty great considering it’s still one class in one place learning the same things the same ways. Others more resemble prisons where no learning is happening and teachers, kids and admins are miserable and underserved. Public education is critical to taking care and nurturing our children, exposing them to diverse ideas and scientific values, but that’s not happening in public schools for the most part today. Also the system itself is incredible stiff and slow to adapt to a changing world.

cafard 5y ago

You pay for the children your children go to school with, and for their parents. You might do it with tuition, you might do it with property tax. Maryland has one school system per county. In Montgomery County the schools are very different between the more prosperous and less prosperous areas. Years ago there was an eye-opening chart of the percentage grade needed get an A in algebra at various high schools.