4 ms·

I find this attitude, as common as it is, a bit of a non-argument. Every company is motivated by profits, and yet I have vastly different opinions on the behavi

I find this attitude, as common as it is, a bit of a non-argument. Every company is motivated by profits, and yet I have vastly different opinions on the behaviours of different companies. Even when you have one ultimate goal, there are a thousand different ways to go about it, including to behave in ways I find admirable in order to secure my business going forward. It's fairly irrelevant to me why you're behaving the way you are, so long as you are.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago
> Every company is motivated by profits, and yet I have vastly different opinions on the behaviours of different companies. Wrong, it is survival bias. Not every company is motivated by profits, but the ones that survive long enough for you to notice are. If the company isn't motivated by profits, is simply doesn't last long enough to be a major player.
- wyattpeak 5y ago
  That's fair, I should clarify: every public is motivated by profits. I don't actually think it's survivorship bias, my local coffee shop is good to me for little other reason than the owner and I get on well, and they're not likely to go out of business any time soon. I just didn't specify my point well enough.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    Your little coffee shop goes out of business if they don't attract enough business, if they have competitors that provide a better product for example. But even then, you are rewarding their good behavior directly, if you want to scale that up, you and and a bunch of your friends will need to stop buying Apple products to let them know you find their behavior to not be of your liking (and become patrons of the companies that do conform to your moral values). But scaling morality is hard without some sort of restricted market intervention.
    - wyattpeak 5y ago
      I'm going to disagree with you there. I agree that their bottom line benefits from their being nice to me, but that's not the same as being motivated by profit. Similarly, I'm not looking to obsessively optimise for the best product. I find your description distastefully cynical, but more importantly not particularly in line with my experience of how people behave.
      - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        I guess we have to agree to disagree. In order to get Apple to stop their behavior, you either have to regulate morality and go beyond not just buying their products, but forcing others to not buy them either.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

> Every company is motivated by profits, and yet I have vastly different opinions on the behaviours of different companies. Wrong, it is survival bias. Not every company is motivated by profits, but the ones that survive long enough for you to notice are. If the company isn't motivated by profits, is simply doesn't last long enough to be a major player.

wyattpeak 5y ago
That's fair, I should clarify: every public is motivated by profits. I don't actually think it's survivorship bias, my local coffee shop is good to me for little other reason than the owner and I get on well, and they're not likely to go out of business any time soon. I just didn't specify my point well enough.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  Your little coffee shop goes out of business if they don't attract enough business, if they have competitors that provide a better product for example. But even then, you are rewarding their good behavior directly, if you want to scale that up, you and and a bunch of your friends will need to stop buying Apple products to let them know you find their behavior to not be of your liking (and become patrons of the companies that do conform to your moral values). But scaling morality is hard without some sort of restricted market intervention.
  - wyattpeak 5y ago
    I'm going to disagree with you there. I agree that their bottom line benefits from their being nice to me, but that's not the same as being motivated by profit. Similarly, I'm not looking to obsessively optimise for the best product. I find your description distastefully cynical, but more importantly not particularly in line with my experience of how people behave.
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      I guess we have to agree to disagree. In order to get Apple to stop their behavior, you either have to regulate morality and go beyond not just buying their products, but forcing others to not buy them either.