4 ms·

You are making a very good point. There's no Facebook, Google, Twitter, Snapchat etc in China. But there are WeChat, Baidu, Weibo, QQ, etc. China is more than

You are making a very good point. There's no Facebook, Google, Twitter, Snapchat etc in China. But there are WeChat, Baidu, Weibo, QQ, etc. China is more than capable to clone and/or make its own version of these companies. And these companies will do as the government says. So, I think that's an excellent example to show that tech "boycotting" China does nothing to change them. Separately, you should also keep in mind that a bunch of these companies didn't even have a choice, since they were considered a threat to national security by the state.

ethbr0 5y ago
Whether or not China will clone an app is immaterial to question of whether all companies will fold to Chinese government pressure. There are many large examples that just didn't, and they exited the market. There are also many large examples that struck varying bargains. I'm sure the CCP didn't get everything they wanted from the referenced Apple deal, and there were hardliners who were pissed about it. And then there are probably a ton of examples that don't even care to bargain and just say yes to whatever is asked. So, complicated spectrum. Side note, if I'm doing my quick math right, Apple's worldwide revenue is equivalent to 1.6% of China's GDP. Which is pretty impressive.
- i_have_an_idea 5y ago
  > Whether or not China will clone an app is immaterial to question of whether all companies will fold to Chinese government pressure. It is very material though. If your business is not special/unique in some important way, then you don't have a lot of bargaining power when the CCP officials come to negotiate the terms. Then your choices boil down to -- accept whatever is offered or exit completely. While some exited completely, I very much doubt they did so on ethical grounds, as you seem to be implying. Rather, the terms were unsatisfiable. Trying to get some sort of an acceptable to you deal is the only thing that makes sense from a business perspective. The alternative is losing access the world's biggest market and watching the state prop up a powerful new competitor that may well compete outside the borders of China too. If you want American companies to be able to resist Chinese govt pressure, then you need to have significant intervention from the US government and hope that they will be able to broker some sort of a deal. Failing that, it's a joke to think that any company has any actual bargaining power in a negotiation with the Chinese govt.
matwood 5y ago
This brings up the long debated question about China and Russia before them. Is it better to have US/Western companies operating with some concessions or better to boycott. I'm still of the opinion it's better to operate with concessions because there is a chance of influencing the local population over time. Otherwise we end up with a completely siloed environment like has happened with parts of China's tech scene.
- i_have_an_idea 5y ago
  I tend to agree. The other drawbacks of a boycott are (obviously) the lost revenue, but also creating a vacuum that will be filled with a powerful, state-backed competitor that may some day operate outside of China as well.
  - FpUser 5y ago
    >"...that may some day operate outside..." You can replace may with will for sure.
cable2600 5y ago
Which HBO's Silicon Valley parodied: https://youtu.be/Km5XQxRrQvw https://youtu.be/Km5XQxRrQvw

ethbr0 5y ago

Whether or not China will clone an app is immaterial to question of whether all companies will fold to Chinese government pressure. There are many large examples that just didn't, and they exited the market. There are also many large examples that struck varying bargains. I'm sure the CCP didn't get everything they wanted from the referenced Apple deal, and there were hardliners who were pissed about it. And then there are probably a ton of examples that don't even care to bargain and just say yes to whatever is asked. So, complicated spectrum. Side note, if I'm doing my quick math right, Apple's worldwide revenue is equivalent to 1.6% of China's GDP. Which is pretty impressive.

i_have_an_idea 5y ago
> Whether or not China will clone an app is immaterial to question of whether all companies will fold to Chinese government pressure. It is very material though. If your business is not special/unique in some important way, then you don't have a lot of bargaining power when the CCP officials come to negotiate the terms. Then your choices boil down to -- accept whatever is offered or exit completely. While some exited completely, I very much doubt they did so on ethical grounds, as you seem to be implying. Rather, the terms were unsatisfiable. Trying to get some sort of an acceptable to you deal is the only thing that makes sense from a business perspective. The alternative is losing access the world's biggest market and watching the state prop up a powerful new competitor that may well compete outside the borders of China too. If you want American companies to be able to resist Chinese govt pressure, then you need to have significant intervention from the US government and hope that they will be able to broker some sort of a deal. Failing that, it's a joke to think that any company has any actual bargaining power in a negotiation with the Chinese govt.

matwood 5y ago

This brings up the long debated question about China and Russia before them. Is it better to have US/Western companies operating with some concessions or better to boycott. I'm still of the opinion it's better to operate with concessions because there is a chance of influencing the local population over time. Otherwise we end up with a completely siloed environment like has happened with parts of China's tech scene.

i_have_an_idea 5y ago
I tend to agree. The other drawbacks of a boycott are (obviously) the lost revenue, but also creating a vacuum that will be filled with a powerful, state-backed competitor that may some day operate outside of China as well.
- FpUser 5y ago
  >"...that may some day operate outside..." You can replace may with will for sure.

cable2600 5y ago

Which HBO's Silicon Valley parodied: https://youtu.be/Km5XQxRrQvw https://youtu.be/Km5XQxRrQvw