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They weren't killed, they died of diseases. As we see today with the pandemic, the respiratory illnesses were unstoppable, so you cant ascribe guilt through som

by djsbs 5y ago

They weren't killed, they died of diseases. As we see today with the pandemic, the respiratory illnesses were unstoppable, so you cant ascribe guilt through some assumed knowledge of proto-germ theory. The first law is from 1512, 20 years after the discover of the Americas. Given transportation at the time it is clear that he vast majority of the troops overthrowing the Inca were recruited by the subjugated native peoples. Kinda what progressives [1] tried to do in Afghanistan. Pray, what noble accomplishment do we have to show in Afghanistan after 20 years? The enslavement of natives was against the law of King. Ignored by criminals, sure, but the law was clear and its violators criminals. Forced conversion to Catholicism from a blood thirst cult that stained their monuments with the blood of innocents. Ya, they were real bad for that. Btw, if you insist on cultural relativism, what were progressives doing in Afghanistan but proselytizing feminism? [1] I used the word progressive, as opposed to Americans, on purpose as the war was a multi nation effort cheered on by people, “right” or “left” who believe we have to impose democracy and liberalism on others. I remember before 9/11 when leftist wanted to liberate Afghani women. I remember in August, when leftists were aghast we left the women behind

Gabriel_Martin 5y ago
"Forced conversion to Catholicism from a blood thirst cult that stained their monuments with the blood of innocents" Not sure you want to bring into focus Catholicism's history as it relates to the blood of innocents..
- dang 5y ago
  Please do not take HN threads further into nationalistic or (god help us) religious flamewar. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - Gabriel_Martin 5y ago
    Sorry, I took the bait. My bad.
- djsbs 5y ago
  @Gabriel Martin. “ Not sure you want to bring into focus Catholicism's history on the blood of innocents..” Go for it. I’ll defend the sins of Rome against the depravities of any other civilization, including and especially our own.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- christkv 5y ago
  I don’t know compared to what major faith. Name of one that has not perpetrated mass murder in name of some deity or idea.
  - shrimp_emoji 5y ago
    A safe bet is this one, which is also one of the most ancient ones that still exists today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism
- shrimp_emoji 5y ago
  It's funny to reflect on the context, too. The Inca were probably the most astonishingly advanced Native Americans, and they surely had great thinkers (definitely great engineers). And here come the conquistadors, rock-headed barbarians from the most desperate segments of Spanish society (little else drove people to risk their life for riches in the New World), absolutely slaughtering them, burning their cultural artifacts or melting them down into ingots when applicable. It's like if (a much more desperate and destitute version of) the January 6th protesters were sent to conquer new worlds. As an aside, a colorful example[0]: they lured the Emperor in a plaza (he came to show he was unafraid, and his army were disarmed of all but ceremonial weapons), and, in the slaughter that ensued, they tried capturing him. He was up on a palanquin, carried by servants. Unable to reach him, the Spanish began cutting off the limbs of the servants, who it's said, without thinking, bore the load on their shoulders instead (it was unthinkable to do otherwise, as they considered the Emperor a god). Eventually, they captured him. In captivity, they taught him to play Chess, and I think it's said he was good at it. Later, panicked that an army was going to come and re-capture him, they killed him. Before his death, he was offered conversion to Catholicism, which he accepted, which awarded him the clemency of being strangled instead of burned alive. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cajamarca https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cajamarca
  - chestertn 5y ago
    This is a very colorful view of history. You can also see that the first university in America was built by the spaniards. The first university in Asia? Also, built by the spaniards. The earlier ships were a mixture of those "barbarians" as you mentioned, and very learned people. The concept of international law and human rights started with the discussions in Spain after the discovery of America: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/school-salamanca/#IusGentIusAdBellEnslIndiAfriOthe https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/school-salamanca/#IusGent...
    - unmole 5y ago
      > The first university in Asia? Also, built by the spaniards. I didn't realise the universities at Takshashila and Nalanda were built by Visigoths. /s
notahacker 5y ago
The Law of 1512 formalised the econmienda system, which was slavery in all but name. The best thing to be said for it is that it was intended to be less brutal than what had already happened and what continued to happen. Diseases decimated the population north and south of the Rio Grande, but it was south of it that the much greater populations also died from overwork (not that the British and French were any better; they just imported their slaves from elsewhere). You will forgive me for not engaging further if you are the sort of person that regards the econmienda system as a magnificent accomplishment, especially compared with the horrors of female education "leftists" inflicted in Afghanistan. It is the same reason I don't speak to the sort of person that argues the holocaust was basically self defence and signs his posts off Deutschland Uber Alles.
- jcranmer 5y ago
  > (not that the British and French were any better; they just imported their slaves from elsewhere). I should point out that the Spanish also imported slaves from Africa in prodigious quantities. However, instead of doing it themselves, the Spanish crown let out a single contract for who would be the sole importer of slaves into the American colonies (the asiento)--and all of the major maritime powers of Europe were vying to win that contract at various points in time.
- hihihihi1234 5y ago
  If you find the term "Deutschland Uber Alles" problematic then you'd be horrified if you ever watch Germany at the football world cup, because "Deutschland Uber Alles" is not a Nazi or fascistic slogan but is a lyric from the current German national anthem.
  - notahacker 5y ago
    And ¡Viva España! is entirely unproblematic except when thrown into revisionist history troll posts. Similarly, regardless of whether the average German ever feels inclined to use the "Deutschland uber alles" phrase at all, if they're using it in forum posts arguing the way German soldiers treated conquered peoples was pretty reasonable actually, they're signalling something quite different to excitement about Die Mannschaft reaching another final Anyway, every time I've watched Germany at the World Cup they only sing the third verse of the Deutschlandlied which doesn't include that phrase. You'd be shocked to learn why it's fallen out of fashion. So that was a really pointless tangent for you to go off on...

by djsbs 5y ago

Gabriel_Martin 5y ago

"Forced conversion to Catholicism from a blood thirst cult that stained their monuments with the blood of innocents" Not sure you want to bring into focus Catholicism's history as it relates to the blood of innocents..

dang 5y ago
Please do not take HN threads further into nationalistic or (god help us) religious flamewar. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- Gabriel_Martin 5y ago
  Sorry, I took the bait. My bad.
djsbs 5y ago
@Gabriel Martin. “ Not sure you want to bring into focus Catholicism's history on the blood of innocents..” Go for it. I’ll defend the sins of Rome against the depravities of any other civilization, including and especially our own.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
christkv 5y ago
I don’t know compared to what major faith. Name of one that has not perpetrated mass murder in name of some deity or idea.
- shrimp_emoji 5y ago
  A safe bet is this one, which is also one of the most ancient ones that still exists today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism
shrimp_emoji 5y ago
It's funny to reflect on the context, too. The Inca were probably the most astonishingly advanced Native Americans, and they surely had great thinkers (definitely great engineers). And here come the conquistadors, rock-headed barbarians from the most desperate segments of Spanish society (little else drove people to risk their life for riches in the New World), absolutely slaughtering them, burning their cultural artifacts or melting them down into ingots when applicable. It's like if (a much more desperate and destitute version of) the January 6th protesters were sent to conquer new worlds. As an aside, a colorful example[0]: they lured the Emperor in a plaza (he came to show he was unafraid, and his army were disarmed of all but ceremonial weapons), and, in the slaughter that ensued, they tried capturing him. He was up on a palanquin, carried by servants. Unable to reach him, the Spanish began cutting off the limbs of the servants, who it's said, without thinking, bore the load on their shoulders instead (it was unthinkable to do otherwise, as they considered the Emperor a god). Eventually, they captured him. In captivity, they taught him to play Chess, and I think it's said he was good at it. Later, panicked that an army was going to come and re-capture him, they killed him. Before his death, he was offered conversion to Catholicism, which he accepted, which awarded him the clemency of being strangled instead of burned alive. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cajamarca https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cajamarca
- chestertn 5y ago
  This is a very colorful view of history. You can also see that the first university in America was built by the spaniards. The first university in Asia? Also, built by the spaniards. The earlier ships were a mixture of those "barbarians" as you mentioned, and very learned people. The concept of international law and human rights started with the discussions in Spain after the discovery of America: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/school-salamanca/#IusGentIusAdBellEnslIndiAfriOthe https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/school-salamanca/#IusGent...
  - unmole 5y ago
    > The first university in Asia? Also, built by the spaniards. I didn't realise the universities at Takshashila and Nalanda were built by Visigoths. /s

notahacker 5y ago

The Law of 1512 formalised the econmienda system, which was slavery in all but name. The best thing to be said for it is that it was intended to be less brutal than what had already happened and what continued to happen. Diseases decimated the population north and south of the Rio Grande, but it was south of it that the much greater populations also died from overwork (not that the British and French were any better; they just imported their slaves from elsewhere). You will forgive me for not engaging further if you are the sort of person that regards the econmienda system as a magnificent accomplishment, especially compared with the horrors of female education "leftists" inflicted in Afghanistan. It is the same reason I don't speak to the sort of person that argues the holocaust was basically self defence and signs his posts off Deutschland Uber Alles.

jcranmer 5y ago
> (not that the British and French were any better; they just imported their slaves from elsewhere). I should point out that the Spanish also imported slaves from Africa in prodigious quantities. However, instead of doing it themselves, the Spanish crown let out a single contract for who would be the sole importer of slaves into the American colonies (the asiento)--and all of the major maritime powers of Europe were vying to win that contract at various points in time.
hihihihi1234 5y ago
If you find the term "Deutschland Uber Alles" problematic then you'd be horrified if you ever watch Germany at the football world cup, because "Deutschland Uber Alles" is not a Nazi or fascistic slogan but is a lyric from the current German national anthem.
- notahacker 5y ago
  And ¡Viva España! is entirely unproblematic except when thrown into revisionist history troll posts. Similarly, regardless of whether the average German ever feels inclined to use the "Deutschland uber alles" phrase at all, if they're using it in forum posts arguing the way German soldiers treated conquered peoples was pretty reasonable actually, they're signalling something quite different to excitement about Die Mannschaft reaching another final Anyway, every time I've watched Germany at the World Cup they only sing the third verse of the Deutschlandlied which doesn't include that phrase. You'd be shocked to learn why it's fallen out of fashion. So that was a really pointless tangent for you to go off on...