4 ms·

OP has cited the Lancet.

mlyle 5y ago
> OP has cited the Lancet. In an exceptionally misleading way: > > COVID-19 survivors also have reduced cognitive abilities, equivalent to about 7 points on IQ scale, Failing to mention that one key thing: * He uses "COVID-19 survivors" -- which it sounds like that's everyone who's infected-- to refer to patients who were on a ventilator. Further, despite attempts at case control, I really doubt the comparison population is well matched to those who actually ended up on a vent. It's unsurprising there's a decent sized effect for those who are hospitalized in intensive care: this is known in general. And it may be a bit overstated here because of confounds.
- camgunz 5y ago
  The paper says > but also for non-hospitalised cases who had biological confirmation of COVID-19 infection (N = 326) I think it applies to everyone?
  - mlyle 5y ago
    See figure 2. A standard deviation of IQ is about 15 IQ points. Only the ventilator patients have an effect anywhere near the claimed magnitude. Average across the COVID patients weighted by prevalence of outcomes (to match the overall population's COVID experiences) is more like 0.5-1.0 IQ points. And some or all of this effect may be generated by confounds.
    - camgunz 5y ago
      Figure 2 shows a pretty clear correlation between severity of respiratory illness and cognitive deficits. If it were really confounded or a random effect, you wouldn't see 100% correlation like this. I do agree their N could be higher for all groups, but that's really hard, and again the correlation is 100%.
      - mlyle 5y ago
        I'm not saying there's not a real effect here. Hell, if there wasn't, that would be unexpected: just about any sickness is correlated with measuring lower cognitively for a time afterwards, and being hospitalized and being on a vent are more so, independent of COVID-19. I'm just saying that: * The claim that there's a 7 IQ point drop from being a COVID-19 survivor is completely bogus, unless you're only a survivor after being on an ventilator. * The effect size and causative relationship are dubious, because the controls and matching on this study are imperfect. There's plenty of opportunity for significant confound. E.g. if dumb people were more likely to not take precautions against getting COVID, it would look like getting COVID was associated with lower cognitive performance in this study.
        camgunz 5y ago
        Oh, yeah I see what you're saying now. Yeah it's too much to say getting COVID-19 chops 7 points off your IQ.
        random314 5y ago
        Makes sense
jMyles 5y ago
Poorly. The paper in question does not even purport to support this conclusion, when stated in such matter-of-fact terms. It's a very interesting study, with laudable measures taken to overcome confounding factors. But I imagine the authors cringe when someone flogs it around as "COVID-19 reduces your IQ by 7!!!!!"

> OP has cited the Lancet. In an exceptionally misleading way: > > COVID-19 survivors also have reduced cognitive abilities, equivalent to about 7 points on IQ scale, Failing to mention that one key thing: * He uses "COVID-19 survivors" -- which it sounds like that's everyone who's infected-- to refer to patients who were on a ventilator. Further, despite attempts at case control, I really doubt the comparison population is well matched to those who actually ended up on a vent. It's unsurprising there's a decent sized effect for those who are hospitalized in intensive care: this is known in general. And it may be a bit overstated here because of confounds.

camgunz 5y ago
The paper says > but also for non-hospitalised cases who had biological confirmation of COVID-19 infection (N = 326) I think it applies to everyone?
- mlyle 5y ago
  See figure 2. A standard deviation of IQ is about 15 IQ points. Only the ventilator patients have an effect anywhere near the claimed magnitude. Average across the COVID patients weighted by prevalence of outcomes (to match the overall population's COVID experiences) is more like 0.5-1.0 IQ points. And some or all of this effect may be generated by confounds.
  - camgunz 5y ago
    Figure 2 shows a pretty clear correlation between severity of respiratory illness and cognitive deficits. If it were really confounded or a random effect, you wouldn't see 100% correlation like this. I do agree their N could be higher for all groups, but that's really hard, and again the correlation is 100%.
    - mlyle 5y ago
      I'm not saying there's not a real effect here. Hell, if there wasn't, that would be unexpected: just about any sickness is correlated with measuring lower cognitively for a time afterwards, and being hospitalized and being on a vent are more so, independent of COVID-19. I'm just saying that: * The claim that there's a 7 IQ point drop from being a COVID-19 survivor is completely bogus, unless you're only a survivor after being on an ventilator. * The effect size and causative relationship are dubious, because the controls and matching on this study are imperfect. There's plenty of opportunity for significant confound. E.g. if dumb people were more likely to not take precautions against getting COVID, it would look like getting COVID was associated with lower cognitive performance in this study.
      - camgunz 5y ago
        Oh, yeah I see what you're saying now. Yeah it's too much to say getting COVID-19 chops 7 points off your IQ.
      - random314 5y ago
        Makes sense

jMyles 5y ago

Poorly. The paper in question does not even purport to support this conclusion, when stated in such matter-of-fact terms. It's a very interesting study, with laudable measures taken to overcome confounding factors. But I imagine the authors cringe when someone flogs it around as "COVID-19 reduces your IQ by 7!!!!!"