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And then lead poisoned voters with poor cognitive skills are more easily manipulated into voting against their own interests or their poverty is used to polariz

And then lead poisoned voters with poor cognitive skills are more easily manipulated into voting against their own interests or their poverty is used to polarize the rest of the electorate and achieve the same outcome.

jeffbee 5y ago
COVID-19 survivors also have reduced cognitive abilities, equivalent to about 7 points on IQ scale, which isn't great for countries that have been hit with many infections. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00324-2/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5...
- chrisco255 5y ago
  No, they don't. This is a completely false statement.
  - xanaxagoras 5y ago
    I dunno, I heard that people who had recovered from COVID-19, including those no longer reporting symptoms, exhibited significant cognitive deficits versus controls when controlling for age, gender, education level, income, racial-ethnic group, pre-existing medical disorders, tiredness, depression and anxiety.
    - fartattack 5y ago
      Well if you heard it, it must be true
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - wolfram74 5y ago
    Completely false in that survivors all have 0 or positive impacts on cognitive abilities? or that survivors have a range of cognitive impacts, none or only some of which could be the equivalent of 7 iq points?
  - random314 5y ago
    OP has cited the Lancet.
    - mlyle 5y ago
      > OP has cited the Lancet. In an exceptionally misleading way: > > COVID-19 survivors also have reduced cognitive abilities, equivalent to about 7 points on IQ scale, Failing to mention that one key thing: * He uses "COVID-19 survivors" -- which it sounds like that's everyone who's infected-- to refer to patients who were on a ventilator. Further, despite attempts at case control, I really doubt the comparison population is well matched to those who actually ended up on a vent. It's unsurprising there's a decent sized effect for those who are hospitalized in intensive care: this is known in general. And it may be a bit overstated here because of confounds.
      - camgunz 5y ago
        The paper says > but also for non-hospitalised cases who had biological confirmation of COVID-19 infection (N = 326) I think it applies to everyone?
        mlyle 5y ago
        See figure 2. A standard deviation of IQ is about 15 IQ points. Only the ventilator patients have an effect anywhere near the claimed magnitude. Average across the COVID patients weighted by prevalence of outcomes (to match the overall population's COVID experiences) is more like 0.5-1.0 IQ points. And some or all of this effect may be generated by confounds.
        camgunz 5y ago
        Figure 2 shows a pretty clear correlation between severity of respiratory illness and cognitive deficits. If it were really confounded or a random effect, you wouldn't see 100% correlation like this. I do agree their N could be higher for all groups, but that's really hard, and again the correlation is 100%.
  - neuro007 5y ago
    Yes, they do. The statement is basically verbatim from the article. They study findings are robust (n~=80000, pvals<1e-5).
    - jMyles 5y ago
      To be "basically verbatim," there would need to be a sentence making the same assertion with different wording. It's true that the paper appears to show cognitive differences lasting months among some subsets of people with previous COVID-19 infections in the UK. It is not true that the paper asserts that being a "COVID-19 survivor" reduces IQ by 7. This is not only not "basically verbatim", but not among the assertions made by this paper.
    - mlyle 5y ago
      I suggest you actually read the paper. * Only the patients on a ventilator showed an effect anywhere near "7 IQ points" --- which was not a metric measured by the paper, but if we're going by about 1/2SD-- (n=44, not 80000). * The P values are impressive, still, but that doesn't mean that the control population chosen to be "like' the ventilator patients is really equivalent. * We already know that being in critical care or on a vent is bad for cognitive performance afterwards. Indeed, we know that being sick in any way is bad for cognitive performance for some time afterwards.
  - eightysixfour 5y ago
    Is it particularly surprising? The UK Bio Bank study showed a loss of grey matter: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v... This study was great because they had data from before COVID that was just part of the Bio Bank, so they were able to review participants already in the bio bank based COVID status. 394 COVID patients and 388 controls. Based on a small sample size of only 15 that were hospitalized, it also appears to increase grey matter loss based on severity, although sample size is not large enough to say so conclusively.
    - chrisco255 5y ago
      Pre-print, not peer reviewed. Biased sample, not conclusive. No long term studies done, etc. Also says nothing about IQ. Show me the clinical trials that measure IQ prior to Covid over a broad sample and then measure IQ 3 months, 6 months, 12 months after recovery, etc.
      - eightysixfour 5y ago
        You’ll have your perfect data in around 5 years. In the mean time, there is significant evidence that suggests COVID impacts the brain. You can ignore it or argue against it all you want, but it is there.
    - ipaddr 5y ago
      That sample size isn't enough to say anything without some other controls in place.
  - vajrabum 5y ago
    Did you read the article referenced? If not, then I don't see how you have no basis for saying this is completely false. If you did read it, then can you explain how you square your bald assertion with the facts presented in the article. Notice that it's published in a Lancet associated journal. They have pretty high standards and I can't see any conflict of interest on the part of the writers.
- Alex3917 5y ago
  > COVID-19 survivors also have reduced cognitive abilities, equivalent to about 7 points on IQ scale Ostensibly true for those on ventilators. However, IQ is normed to those who are the same age as you. So if being on a ventilator also takes a couple decades off your life expectancy, then there isn't necessarily any difference, at least if you think of yourself as being a couple decades older.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
wyager 5y ago
Exactly which voting bloc do you think is composed of lead poisoning victims?
- mandmandam 5y ago
  Both. Smart voters wouldn't allow executive orders, forever wars, bank bailouts, hackable voting machines, winner takes all voting, the destruction of environmental regulations, subsidies to fossil fuel, unwinnable cold wars, outsourcing of all manufacturing, stagnant wages despite record productivity, record inequality, pandemic profiteering, opioid crises with obvious correlations, the smearing of heroes like Assange, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
- warning26 5y ago
  I think it's pretty clear that severe cognitive impairment would be required to think Trump was a good or effective president.
  - pmarreck 5y ago
    Can we please at least skirt around the political claims, here? It's not like disprovably-false things haven't ever been claimed en masse by leftwingers
- pmarreck 5y ago
  Logically it would be the ones living in rural areas with old homes that haven't actually had all their lead removed, yet. The fact that most rural areas are also conservative is neither here nor there.

jeffbee 5y ago

COVID-19 survivors also have reduced cognitive abilities, equivalent to about 7 points on IQ scale, which isn't great for countries that have been hit with many infections. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00324-2/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5...

chrisco255 5y ago
No, they don't. This is a completely false statement.
- xanaxagoras 5y ago
  I dunno, I heard that people who had recovered from COVID-19, including those no longer reporting symptoms, exhibited significant cognitive deficits versus controls when controlling for age, gender, education level, income, racial-ethnic group, pre-existing medical disorders, tiredness, depression and anxiety.
  - fartattack 5y ago
    Well if you heard it, it must be true
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- wolfram74 5y ago
  Completely false in that survivors all have 0 or positive impacts on cognitive abilities? or that survivors have a range of cognitive impacts, none or only some of which could be the equivalent of 7 iq points?
- random314 5y ago
  OP has cited the Lancet.
  - mlyle 5y ago
    > OP has cited the Lancet. In an exceptionally misleading way: > > COVID-19 survivors also have reduced cognitive abilities, equivalent to about 7 points on IQ scale, Failing to mention that one key thing: * He uses "COVID-19 survivors" -- which it sounds like that's everyone who's infected-- to refer to patients who were on a ventilator. Further, despite attempts at case control, I really doubt the comparison population is well matched to those who actually ended up on a vent. It's unsurprising there's a decent sized effect for those who are hospitalized in intensive care: this is known in general. And it may be a bit overstated here because of confounds.
    - camgunz 5y ago
      The paper says > but also for non-hospitalised cases who had biological confirmation of COVID-19 infection (N = 326) I think it applies to everyone?
      - mlyle 5y ago
        See figure 2. A standard deviation of IQ is about 15 IQ points. Only the ventilator patients have an effect anywhere near the claimed magnitude. Average across the COVID patients weighted by prevalence of outcomes (to match the overall population's COVID experiences) is more like 0.5-1.0 IQ points. And some or all of this effect may be generated by confounds.
        camgunz 5y ago
        Figure 2 shows a pretty clear correlation between severity of respiratory illness and cognitive deficits. If it were really confounded or a random effect, you wouldn't see 100% correlation like this. I do agree their N could be higher for all groups, but that's really hard, and again the correlation is 100%.
- neuro007 5y ago
  Yes, they do. The statement is basically verbatim from the article. They study findings are robust (n~=80000, pvals<1e-5).
  - jMyles 5y ago
    To be "basically verbatim," there would need to be a sentence making the same assertion with different wording. It's true that the paper appears to show cognitive differences lasting months among some subsets of people with previous COVID-19 infections in the UK. It is not true that the paper asserts that being a "COVID-19 survivor" reduces IQ by 7. This is not only not "basically verbatim", but not among the assertions made by this paper.
  - mlyle 5y ago
    I suggest you actually read the paper. * Only the patients on a ventilator showed an effect anywhere near "7 IQ points" --- which was not a metric measured by the paper, but if we're going by about 1/2SD-- (n=44, not 80000). * The P values are impressive, still, but that doesn't mean that the control population chosen to be "like' the ventilator patients is really equivalent. * We already know that being in critical care or on a vent is bad for cognitive performance afterwards. Indeed, we know that being sick in any way is bad for cognitive performance for some time afterwards.
- eightysixfour 5y ago
  Is it particularly surprising? The UK Bio Bank study showed a loss of grey matter: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v... This study was great because they had data from before COVID that was just part of the Bio Bank, so they were able to review participants already in the bio bank based COVID status. 394 COVID patients and 388 controls. Based on a small sample size of only 15 that were hospitalized, it also appears to increase grey matter loss based on severity, although sample size is not large enough to say so conclusively.
  - chrisco255 5y ago
    Pre-print, not peer reviewed. Biased sample, not conclusive. No long term studies done, etc. Also says nothing about IQ. Show me the clinical trials that measure IQ prior to Covid over a broad sample and then measure IQ 3 months, 6 months, 12 months after recovery, etc.
    - eightysixfour 5y ago
      You’ll have your perfect data in around 5 years. In the mean time, there is significant evidence that suggests COVID impacts the brain. You can ignore it or argue against it all you want, but it is there.
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    That sample size isn't enough to say anything without some other controls in place.
- vajrabum 5y ago
  Did you read the article referenced? If not, then I don't see how you have no basis for saying this is completely false. If you did read it, then can you explain how you square your bald assertion with the facts presented in the article. Notice that it's published in a Lancet associated journal. They have pretty high standards and I can't see any conflict of interest on the part of the writers.
Alex3917 5y ago
> COVID-19 survivors also have reduced cognitive abilities, equivalent to about 7 points on IQ scale Ostensibly true for those on ventilators. However, IQ is normed to those who are the same age as you. So if being on a ventilator also takes a couple decades off your life expectancy, then there isn't necessarily any difference, at least if you think of yourself as being a couple decades older.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

wyager 5y ago

Exactly which voting bloc do you think is composed of lead poisoning victims?

mandmandam 5y ago
Both. Smart voters wouldn't allow executive orders, forever wars, bank bailouts, hackable voting machines, winner takes all voting, the destruction of environmental regulations, subsidies to fossil fuel, unwinnable cold wars, outsourcing of all manufacturing, stagnant wages despite record productivity, record inequality, pandemic profiteering, opioid crises with obvious correlations, the smearing of heroes like Assange, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
warning26 5y ago
I think it's pretty clear that severe cognitive impairment would be required to think Trump was a good or effective president.
- pmarreck 5y ago
  Can we please at least skirt around the political claims, here? It's not like disprovably-false things haven't ever been claimed en masse by leftwingers
pmarreck 5y ago
Logically it would be the ones living in rural areas with old homes that haven't actually had all their lead removed, yet. The fact that most rural areas are also conservative is neither here nor there.