4 ms·

> We start with the quickest measures of immunity. As better data comes in, we change our opinion. This is exactly the problem with pandemic messaging. Too man

by dolni 5y ago

> We start with the quickest measures of immunity. As better data comes in, we change our opinion. This is exactly the problem with pandemic messaging. Too many claims based on garbage data that end up being wrong later. The result is a population that doesn't trust its government's guidance. Vaccines were supposed to end the pandemic. Then it was they would keep you from getting sick. Then it was you'd still get sick, but you wouldn't spread it. Now it's you'll still get sick and you'll still spread it, but you won't die.

dragontamer 5y ago
> This is exactly the problem with pandemic messaging There's two parts to the pandemic. Gathering information, and spreading information. You need to spread the currently known things, so that scientists know what else to look for. Welcome to the world of science and learning. You know one thing, and then it changes as new tests come in. Its impossible to get to the truth from the beginning in one step.
- dolni 5y ago
  On the contrary -- welcome to the world trust building. If you only know one thing, you keep your mouth shut until you know more. And if the thing you know isn't actually known, like how effective the vaccine really is, that goes double. Notice that doesn't require you to "know the truth from the beginning in one step." It requires the people in charge to show some restraint. You only get so many opportunities to be wrong before that trust is eroded.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    Bullshit. Antivaxxers are spreading blatantly wrong information and are building trust among their base far faster. I still see bullshit about ivermectin pop up these days. And instead, a little nitpicky mistake like 'vaccines work against COVID-19 90% but only vs Delta 60%' is enough to erode your trust? Delta didn't even exist when the original 95% claims were made. Furthermore, the 95% claim is still true for Alpha and the original strain. -------- Misinformation is everywhere, and no one I know has managed to ween themselves off of it. You talk about "breaking trust", except I've got plenty of friends and family who have been on the Hydroxychloroquine / Ivermectin / Vitamin D bullshit train, none-the-wiser to the moving goalposts and faulty logic that has bombarded them. Misinformation does _NOT_ erode trust. It in facts builds it up. People who eat up the Hydroxycholorquine stuff from last year still don't want to be wrong and have double-downed upon the subject (although they've changed it up to other drugs).
  - teknofobi 5y ago
    Damned if you do, and damned if you don’t. > And if the thing you know isn't actually known Who do you want to be the arbiter that gatekeeps this information and decides the science is strong enough that you “actually know”?
    - timr 5y ago
      > Who do you want to be the arbiter that gatekeeps this information and decides the science is strong enough that you “actually know”? Maybe YouTube can do it. They seem to be eager to censor everything else. (/s)
  - javagram 5y ago
    “ If you only know one thing, you keep your mouth shut until you know more. ” So hiding and covering up information is the way you think scientists should build trust, rather than being open and also clear about the limitations? The lack of trust has nothing to do with scientists publishing data and everything to do with hucksters who misinterpret or lie about it to spread anti-vaccine panic or “government control” conspiracy theories.
    - eksapsy 5y ago
      The lack of trust in these situations seems to come more from how many people perceive the world of science. Many people seem to think once science has an answer it can't be wrong, and it's difficult to change, when it's more or less the complete opposite. That's what we've been taught in school. No one has been taught about how many studies turned out wrong or are easily misleading, or how to study papers and make research. I blame education for that, for it doesn't properly teach you how to understand science. Science is taught like a Bible, when it should be taught as something people created and it's error prone.
  - bigodbiel 5y ago
    And that's why academics shouldn't be the face of policy making. But I guess they liked the spotight too much to step out of it.

by dolni 5y ago

dragontamer 5y ago

> This is exactly the problem with pandemic messaging There's two parts to the pandemic. Gathering information, and spreading information. You need to spread the currently known things, so that scientists know what else to look for. Welcome to the world of science and learning. You know one thing, and then it changes as new tests come in. Its impossible to get to the truth from the beginning in one step.

dolni 5y ago
On the contrary -- welcome to the world trust building. If you only know one thing, you keep your mouth shut until you know more. And if the thing you know isn't actually known, like how effective the vaccine really is, that goes double. Notice that doesn't require you to "know the truth from the beginning in one step." It requires the people in charge to show some restraint. You only get so many opportunities to be wrong before that trust is eroded.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  Bullshit. Antivaxxers are spreading blatantly wrong information and are building trust among their base far faster. I still see bullshit about ivermectin pop up these days. And instead, a little nitpicky mistake like 'vaccines work against COVID-19 90% but only vs Delta 60%' is enough to erode your trust? Delta didn't even exist when the original 95% claims were made. Furthermore, the 95% claim is still true for Alpha and the original strain. -------- Misinformation is everywhere, and no one I know has managed to ween themselves off of it. You talk about "breaking trust", except I've got plenty of friends and family who have been on the Hydroxychloroquine / Ivermectin / Vitamin D bullshit train, none-the-wiser to the moving goalposts and faulty logic that has bombarded them. Misinformation does _NOT_ erode trust. It in facts builds it up. People who eat up the Hydroxycholorquine stuff from last year still don't want to be wrong and have double-downed upon the subject (although they've changed it up to other drugs).
- teknofobi 5y ago
  Damned if you do, and damned if you don’t. > And if the thing you know isn't actually known Who do you want to be the arbiter that gatekeeps this information and decides the science is strong enough that you “actually know”?
  - timr 5y ago
    > Who do you want to be the arbiter that gatekeeps this information and decides the science is strong enough that you “actually know”? Maybe YouTube can do it. They seem to be eager to censor everything else. (/s)
- javagram 5y ago
  “ If you only know one thing, you keep your mouth shut until you know more. ” So hiding and covering up information is the way you think scientists should build trust, rather than being open and also clear about the limitations? The lack of trust has nothing to do with scientists publishing data and everything to do with hucksters who misinterpret or lie about it to spread anti-vaccine panic or “government control” conspiracy theories.
  - eksapsy 5y ago
    The lack of trust in these situations seems to come more from how many people perceive the world of science. Many people seem to think once science has an answer it can't be wrong, and it's difficult to change, when it's more or less the complete opposite. That's what we've been taught in school. No one has been taught about how many studies turned out wrong or are easily misleading, or how to study papers and make research. I blame education for that, for it doesn't properly teach you how to understand science. Science is taught like a Bible, when it should be taught as something people created and it's error prone.
- bigodbiel 5y ago
  And that's why academics shouldn't be the face of policy making. But I guess they liked the spotight too much to step out of it.