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You had the vaccine so you recovered quickly, if you didn’t have the vaccine you might not have recovered and needed hospitalization. I mean, the alternative w

by ohyes 5y ago

You had the vaccine so you recovered quickly, if you didn’t have the vaccine you might not have recovered and needed hospitalization. I mean, the alternative where you don’t get the vaccine includes much higher risk of lung damage, nervous system damage and total organ failure. I think even if there was data to back this up (that somehow vaccine gives less protection than a real infection…), getting a booster every year or 6 months is well worth it given what happens with an unvaccinated covid infection. People do seem to get reinfected and die after already having it once. I don’t think that your model of how vaccines work really makes sense. I mean, the point is to prime your immune system with antibodies to something similar but relatively harmless so you can fight off the disease immediately rather than waiting for it to get a strong foothold… in a way that is safe. Saying it is less effective than getting sick is like totaling your car to avoid regular maintenance.

hcurtiss 5y ago
Except for many cohorts, the overwhelming — near certain — odds are that they’d be fine after contracting COVID.
- arisAlexis 5y ago
  Why draw a deadly roulette ticket?
  - artificialLimbs 5y ago
    Because this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2021/11/04/feds-pay-zero-claims-for-covid-19-vaccine-injuriesdeaths/?sh=1450c36a4a87 https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2021/11/04/fed... despite this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lepqvdXoA2E&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lepqvdXoA2E&feature=youtu.be Oops, you can't watch that. Senators holding an expert panel is "dangerous misinformation". Here you go: https://rumble.com/vokrf7-sen.-johnson-expert-panel-on-federal-vaccine-mandates.html https://rumble.com/vokrf7-sen.-johnson-expert-panel-on-feder...
    - ohyes 5y ago
      Just so it is clear to you, the Forbes article you link is an opinion piece.
      - hcurtiss 5y ago
        Premised on the undisputed fact that vaccine manufacturers are not liable for adverse reactions, leaving the victim with no remedy.
      - choward 5y ago
        Just so it's clear to you, there are facts in opinion piece. Opinion pieces are often someone's opinion on existing facts.
  - Leparamour 5y ago
    Seems like the vaccine is the deadly roulette ticket: risk of fatal bloodclotting every time a new vaccine is administered while ironically being at a higher risk against new, potentially more dangerous, mutations compared to people who recovered from a Covid infection naturally. I guess it comes down how much you trust pharmaceutical companies having the payday of a lifetime and politicians on a power trip.
    - ohyes 5y ago
      To be clear, there is no evidence for any of your claims.
      - bigodbiel 5y ago
        Risk of blood clotting / thromosis (VIIT) with adenovirus vector and Peri / Myocarditis with mRNA based are known risks, even if extremely rare overall (but worrying for specific groups; <50 females and <30 males respectively)
        arisAlexis 5y ago
        You should compare with risk of clotting vs covid disease.
- graeme 5y ago
  In which case….why care which order you did things in, by your logic? If the consequences are low the decision is academic. (I don’t agree: I think there is risk of chronic damage that doesn’t appear as acute symptoms)
bavell 5y ago
> I don’t think that your model of how vaccines work really makes sense. I believe OP is referencing "Original antigenic sin" [0]. "This leaves the immune system "trapped" by the first response it has made to each antigen, and unable to mount potentially more effective responses during subsequent infections." [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_antigenic_sin https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_antigenic_sin
- sjg007 5y ago
  Doesn’t make sense. If the infection continues the immune system will generate new antibodies and responses. After all it’s a new thing not seen before.
  - fluidcruft 5y ago
    The linked article both describes the mechanism and has plenty of recent references observing and studying the effect whether or not you think it makes sense. The general mechanism is that recognition of the antigen by memory B cells produces a response that also inhibits (non-memory) B cells from reacting to the antigen. So when the antigen has drifted enough that memory B cells still recognize it, but the antibodies are less effective then at that point B cells are actively inhibited by the memory B cells so new and retargeted antibodies are not produced.
    - ohyes 5y ago
      So, down the line, you might be more susceptible to a similar mutation. (Based on no hard evidence for this particular virus). (Social media reports aren’t exactly reliable and everything seems to indicate that your chances of serious complications are worse without a vaccine). Right now, there’s a deadly virus going around and there might not be a “later” for me if I don’t get the vaccine. I think I’ll take my chances with the vaccine. It seems like a no brainer to me.
      - nostrebored 5y ago
        There is hard evidence. I’m on mobile and can’t look well now, but I encourage you to look!

by ohyes 5y ago

hcurtiss 5y ago

Except for many cohorts, the overwhelming — near certain — odds are that they’d be fine after contracting COVID.

arisAlexis 5y ago
Why draw a deadly roulette ticket?
- artificialLimbs 5y ago
  Because this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2021/11/04/feds-pay-zero-claims-for-covid-19-vaccine-injuriesdeaths/?sh=1450c36a4a87 https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2021/11/04/fed... despite this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lepqvdXoA2E&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lepqvdXoA2E&feature=youtu.be Oops, you can't watch that. Senators holding an expert panel is "dangerous misinformation". Here you go: https://rumble.com/vokrf7-sen.-johnson-expert-panel-on-federal-vaccine-mandates.html https://rumble.com/vokrf7-sen.-johnson-expert-panel-on-feder...
  - ohyes 5y ago
    Just so it is clear to you, the Forbes article you link is an opinion piece.
    - hcurtiss 5y ago
      Premised on the undisputed fact that vaccine manufacturers are not liable for adverse reactions, leaving the victim with no remedy.
    - choward 5y ago
      Just so it's clear to you, there are facts in opinion piece. Opinion pieces are often someone's opinion on existing facts.
- Leparamour 5y ago
  Seems like the vaccine is the deadly roulette ticket: risk of fatal bloodclotting every time a new vaccine is administered while ironically being at a higher risk against new, potentially more dangerous, mutations compared to people who recovered from a Covid infection naturally. I guess it comes down how much you trust pharmaceutical companies having the payday of a lifetime and politicians on a power trip.
  - ohyes 5y ago
    To be clear, there is no evidence for any of your claims.
    - bigodbiel 5y ago
      Risk of blood clotting / thromosis (VIIT) with adenovirus vector and Peri / Myocarditis with mRNA based are known risks, even if extremely rare overall (but worrying for specific groups; <50 females and <30 males respectively)
      - arisAlexis 5y ago
        You should compare with risk of clotting vs covid disease.
graeme 5y ago
In which case….why care which order you did things in, by your logic? If the consequences are low the decision is academic. (I don’t agree: I think there is risk of chronic damage that doesn’t appear as acute symptoms)

bavell 5y ago

> I don’t think that your model of how vaccines work really makes sense. I believe OP is referencing "Original antigenic sin" [0]. "This leaves the immune system "trapped" by the first response it has made to each antigen, and unable to mount potentially more effective responses during subsequent infections." [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_antigenic_sin https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_antigenic_sin

sjg007 5y ago
Doesn’t make sense. If the infection continues the immune system will generate new antibodies and responses. After all it’s a new thing not seen before.
- fluidcruft 5y ago
  The linked article both describes the mechanism and has plenty of recent references observing and studying the effect whether or not you think it makes sense. The general mechanism is that recognition of the antigen by memory B cells produces a response that also inhibits (non-memory) B cells from reacting to the antigen. So when the antigen has drifted enough that memory B cells still recognize it, but the antibodies are less effective then at that point B cells are actively inhibited by the memory B cells so new and retargeted antibodies are not produced.
  - ohyes 5y ago
    So, down the line, you might be more susceptible to a similar mutation. (Based on no hard evidence for this particular virus). (Social media reports aren’t exactly reliable and everything seems to indicate that your chances of serious complications are worse without a vaccine). Right now, there’s a deadly virus going around and there might not be a “later” for me if I don’t get the vaccine. I think I’ll take my chances with the vaccine. It seems like a no brainer to me.
    - nostrebored 5y ago
      There is hard evidence. I’m on mobile and can’t look well now, but I encourage you to look!