6 ms·

First of all, "we" don't all get the flu vaccine every year. Those of us who are healthy can elect not to get it and be just fine. Secondly, the flu vaccine is

by dolni 5y ago

First of all, "we" don't all get the flu vaccine every year. Those of us who are healthy can elect not to get it and be just fine. Secondly, the flu vaccine isn't the same vaccine every year. It is reformulated to target the flu strains that are predicted to be dominant that season. Thirdly, the flu vaccines effectiveness varies wildly from pretty darn good to almost worthless. Usually depending on how accurately flu strains were predicted.

kbelder 5y ago
Huh. The CDC says that about 50% of adults in the US get the flu shot. That's much higher than I would have guessed. I would have thought it was around 20%... medical workers and the old/infirm. I never have; I might when I get into my 70s or 80s.
ptaipale 5y ago
You cannot "elect" to not get a vaccine and be just fine. You're just relying on your luck after electing not to reduce the risks. The risks vary with different diseases, and in different people, and in different demographic environments. But with covid, it's quite clear that for all adults, the risk reduction by vaccine far outweighs the risks of vaccine complications.
- peteradio 5y ago
  Risks of vaccine complications are not the only risks to weigh against getting a vaccine. Now that these are being mandated it also becomes a risk of validating medical tyranny as an authoritarian methodology.
  - dahart 5y ago
    Is it tyranny if it’s what the majority wants and votes for? It seems like “tyranny” is being used to describe situations where democracy is working as expected, and some people just don’t want to accept the majority result. I feel like this word tyranny is being thrown around a lot lately without much rigorous thinking about the fact that we do need laws because we have no choice about having to share a lot of things including the air we breathe. Is the fact that it’s illegal to murder someone tyrannical and authoritarian?
    - peteradio 5y ago
      How much of your comfort in these drugs is based on who is holding power wherever you may reside? I don't really know what you are talking about with the murder analogy. Obviously the uncomfortable issue at play here is the duality of: Your right to swing your arms ends at my face or whatever. Who's doing what to who here? Are you punching me with the mandate or am I punching you with my hypothetical infection and hypothetical ICU bed? Do we have to put numbers to how hypothetically infectious I am or we must fall in line and "Do whatever we can" which today happens to be getting injected with a drug that fails to prevent infection.
      - dahart 5y ago
        > How much of your comfort in these drugs is based on who is holding power wherever you may reside? Literally zero. I know enough about science and economics to know that the US president has no bearing on the efficacy of the COVID vaccine whatsoever, just like politicians have exactly zero bearing on how well the flu vaccine works or how well Ibuprofen works. > Your right to swing your arms ends at my face or whatever. Right, so why in your mind doesn’t that extend to my right to not get infected by you in public? P.S. you dodged the question: why is a mandate that the majority wants equivalent to tyranny? Do you think the mandate to buy car insurance in order to drive on public roads is tyranny?
        spurgu 5y ago
        Oh you mean the Americans who think they have a 15-25% chance of dying from Covid if they get it? I wouldn't trust the majority to be well-informed. https://covid19pulse.usc.edu/ https://covid19pulse.usc.edu/ (granted the numbers have been going down recently, but it still illustrates the hysteria quite well) And I also wouldn't trust big pharma to have my best interest in mind.
        dahart 5y ago
        > Oh you mean the Americans who think they have a 15-25% chance of dying from Covid if they get it? Absolutely not. I meant the total number of people who have actually died from it compared to the near zero vaccine fatalities.
eliotsplyt1 5y ago
As a young, healthy person you don’t get the flu vaccine to protect yourself, you get it to lessen the chances that you’ll pass on the flu to someone elderly or immunocompromised for whom the flu is often deadly. This is how vaccines work toward public health. Not by preventing illness in all cases, but by lessening the pool of potential cases to ease the health burden on the population. It’s good practice as a citizen and a neighbor to get vaccinated.
- nostrebored 5y ago
  Many vaccines do not prevent transmissibility.

by dolni 5y ago

kbelder 5y ago

Huh. The CDC says that about 50% of adults in the US get the flu shot. That's much higher than I would have guessed. I would have thought it was around 20%... medical workers and the old/infirm. I never have; I might when I get into my 70s or 80s.

ptaipale 5y ago

You cannot "elect" to not get a vaccine and be just fine. You're just relying on your luck after electing not to reduce the risks. The risks vary with different diseases, and in different people, and in different demographic environments. But with covid, it's quite clear that for all adults, the risk reduction by vaccine far outweighs the risks of vaccine complications.

peteradio 5y ago
Risks of vaccine complications are not the only risks to weigh against getting a vaccine. Now that these are being mandated it also becomes a risk of validating medical tyranny as an authoritarian methodology.
- dahart 5y ago
  Is it tyranny if it’s what the majority wants and votes for? It seems like “tyranny” is being used to describe situations where democracy is working as expected, and some people just don’t want to accept the majority result. I feel like this word tyranny is being thrown around a lot lately without much rigorous thinking about the fact that we do need laws because we have no choice about having to share a lot of things including the air we breathe. Is the fact that it’s illegal to murder someone tyrannical and authoritarian?
  - peteradio 5y ago
    How much of your comfort in these drugs is based on who is holding power wherever you may reside? I don't really know what you are talking about with the murder analogy. Obviously the uncomfortable issue at play here is the duality of: Your right to swing your arms ends at my face or whatever. Who's doing what to who here? Are you punching me with the mandate or am I punching you with my hypothetical infection and hypothetical ICU bed? Do we have to put numbers to how hypothetically infectious I am or we must fall in line and "Do whatever we can" which today happens to be getting injected with a drug that fails to prevent infection.
    - dahart 5y ago
      > How much of your comfort in these drugs is based on who is holding power wherever you may reside? Literally zero. I know enough about science and economics to know that the US president has no bearing on the efficacy of the COVID vaccine whatsoever, just like politicians have exactly zero bearing on how well the flu vaccine works or how well Ibuprofen works. > Your right to swing your arms ends at my face or whatever. Right, so why in your mind doesn’t that extend to my right to not get infected by you in public? P.S. you dodged the question: why is a mandate that the majority wants equivalent to tyranny? Do you think the mandate to buy car insurance in order to drive on public roads is tyranny?
      - spurgu 5y ago
        Oh you mean the Americans who think they have a 15-25% chance of dying from Covid if they get it? I wouldn't trust the majority to be well-informed. https://covid19pulse.usc.edu/ https://covid19pulse.usc.edu/ (granted the numbers have been going down recently, but it still illustrates the hysteria quite well) And I also wouldn't trust big pharma to have my best interest in mind.
        dahart 5y ago
        > Oh you mean the Americans who think they have a 15-25% chance of dying from Covid if they get it? Absolutely not. I meant the total number of people who have actually died from it compared to the near zero vaccine fatalities.

eliotsplyt1 5y ago

As a young, healthy person you don’t get the flu vaccine to protect yourself, you get it to lessen the chances that you’ll pass on the flu to someone elderly or immunocompromised for whom the flu is often deadly. This is how vaccines work toward public health. Not by preventing illness in all cases, but by lessening the pool of potential cases to ease the health burden on the population. It’s good practice as a citizen and a neighbor to get vaccinated.

nostrebored 5y ago
Many vaccines do not prevent transmissibility.