7 ms·

Not deadly enough _to you_. I'm sure those who are vulnerable will thank you immensely for your compassion.

by Jenk 5y ago

johnisgood 5y ago
Do they actually prevent transmission significantly? Is there a study on this? I am curious.
- bufferoverflow 5y ago
  I saw one study, the transmission rate of the vaccinated was around 10% lower than of the non-vaccinated. It's good, but won't stop the virus from spreading even if everyone is vaccinated.
  - johnisgood 5y ago
    Hmm, what about "everyone" catching the variant that causes mostly fatigue only? I heard it is related to common cold as well. If everyone (or the majority) caught it and went through it, we would have pretty good immunity against the more harmful variants, right?
    - bigodbiel 5y ago
      Well, lately even the CDC finally bend their knees to the alter of Immunology updating their internal guidance on natural immunity that "overall SARS-CoV-2-specific IgG remain detectable in approximately 90% of persons who seroconvert up to 10 months to one year post-infection" [1] [1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/vaccine-induced-immunity.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-br... I always joke that we should have placed all the elders, high risk, plus whoever else wanted, in stasis for a year, and let Rona rip!
logicchains 5y ago
You are aware that while the covid vaccines protect against severe illness and death, they don't prevent somebody catching and spreading the virus?
- fer 5y ago
  Are you aware that there are numbers between 0 and 1?
- junon 5y ago
  You are incorrect. The vaccine significantly reduces spread. That is one of the biggest reasons why it's being pushed. Please educate yourself about how viruses work. E: Ah yes please link to more preprints you scrounged up on Google to argue with the literal army of mutliple-degree-wielding epidemiologists.
  - logicchains 5y ago
    Please educate yourself about how these vaccines work. There's a wealth of evidence showing they have minimal effect on reducing transmission: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.19.21262139v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.19.21262139v... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34176397/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34176397/ https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v6 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v...
- shawabawa3 5y ago
  > they don't prevent somebody catching and spreading the virus? No but they do reduce the chance you catch and spread the virus
  - hammock 5y ago
    I hear people say this, is there data from the CDC on this?
    - shawabawa3 5y ago
      https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-s... "In September, unvaccinated persons had 5.8X Risk of Testing Positive for COVID-19 and 14X Risk of Dying from COVID-19 compared to fully vaccinated people"
Smooth-Weather 5y ago
Those who are vulnerable can take the booster if they want to.
- TheRealWatson 5y ago
  Unfortunately not everyone can take the vaccine.
  - Smooth-Weather 5y ago
    Yes, indeed. But sadly, taking the vaccine doesn't prevent you from spreading the virus. In France, cases are still increasing even if more than 75% of the population is vaccinated. We are closing the nightclubs, again, (which were allowed to people tested negative or fully vaccinated) because the virus is still spreading in the vaccinated population. Fortunately, it adds a protective layer for you, but as we can see now: not for the others.
hammock 5y ago
Does the Pfizer jab infection and prevent transmission to others? I thought I saw Fauci and Walensky (CDC) recently lamenting that it doesn't. Most of what I hear people say is it prevents disease severity.
- marcinzm 5y ago
  Based on this it does: https://www.rivm.nl/en/news/vaccination-reduces-transmission-to-unvaccinated-household-members-by-63-for-delta-variant https://www.rivm.nl/en/news/vaccination-reduces-transmission...
- politician 5y ago
  It's a good question. If you Google it, the first page of results has articles reporting different reductions depending on the study, number of doses, and manufacturer. The range of results from a quick glance at a few of the articles is between 11% and 71% reduced transmission.
  - hammock 5y ago
    Thanks I will check it out. Would love to understand how those square up with the many studies that discuss natural immunity and the low to non-existent reinfection/transmission rates there. I know so many people who recovered from covid (jabbed and unjabbed), are healthy now, and don't see a need for a jab/booster.
    - politician 5y ago
      I got the first two shots because it seemed advisable and I was willing to roll the dice on a novel mRNA treatment due to this HN post [1]. However, I'm confused and frustrated about the messaging on the 3rd. It's either only for people 65 and older, or for everyone if you can get it, or it's mandatory to complete your vaccination, or it's going to be a seasonal thing like the flu vaccine depending on the source. For me, it's worth pausing until the messaging stabilizes -- Omicron being universally reported as relatively mild really undermines the message that continuous boosters are necessary. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26628233 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26628233
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
- chrizzy 5y ago
  you do know you are spreading the virus though when you are infected
politician 5y ago
Do you always get a flu shot?
- politician 5y ago
  For context, the CDC reports annual hospitalizations from flu up to 710,000. So it's important to remember to always get your flu shot because it reduces transmission of another virus that can cause hospitalizations. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  I never get them.
- Jenk 5y ago
  Yes. Next pointless strawman, please.
swader999 5y ago
The vulnerable can and should seek out this protection without asking the healthy to risk vaccine injury. Herd immunity is impossible to achieve in a virus that can migrate in and out of animal reservoirs.
toss1 5y ago
Also, "neither_color" does not know enough to make that judgement - NO ONE knows that because the data simply does not exist. Hospitalization and death are severely lagging indicators - no one knows how deadly it is in what populations. This is about as stupid a sentiment as HR directors demanding applicants have 10 years experience in [New_Language] two years after it is invented. This sort of propaganda should have no place on HN
bnalP 5y ago
No compassion if gay and bisexual men demand to donate blood. That is awesome and progressive! Not being vaccinated is deplorable.
CountDrewku 5y ago
Why don't you provide us the death rate percentages on the "vulnerable". They're not pushing this specifically for vulnerable people. How many boosters do I have to get to protect them?
rocqua 5y ago
Besides, the non-deadlyness comes from being able to treat people in the ICU. That means places are running out of space in their ICUs. Hence peoples cancer treatments are being delayed because there isn't the ICU space to handle these treatments. The treatment of very ill covid cases has a massive cost in health to the general population. And the people requiring ICU space are predominantly unvaccinated. There lies some of the crux of the issue though. Because taking a vaccine to reduce change of death from 0.5% to 0.1% would feels different than taking a vaccine to reduce chance of blocking someone else's cancer treatment from 0.5% to 0.1% (numbers here are made up by me). Essentially the vaccine mostly protects others who need access to healthcare.
bobthechef 5y ago
There are plenty of threats to the vulnerable in the world. Should we therefore impose coercive blanket policies on everyone and across the board under the pretext of "compassion"? Is collateral damage unimportant?
- Jenk 5y ago
  Can you point to the spot(s) on the doll where the big bad vaccines hurt you? Oh that's right. No where.
- politician 5y ago
  You shouldn't be downvoted for asking this question. The silence of dissent has often led to tyranny.
chrisjc 5y ago
I'm constantly shocked at how myopic and self-centered people are when responding to comments like this. There are other ways that this virus impacts us all beyond just transmission. It's not all about you and your "plan" to deal with it if you get it. For instance, it's impacting people that need medical attention unrelated to COVID. It's impacting the lives of those left behind trying to piece together the assets and debts (ICU!) of those that died from COVID without a trust or will. It's impacting those that now have to attend a large gathering to celebrate someone's life. It's pushing doctors, nurses, etc that are directly exposed to this madness to their limits, thus impacting quality of healthcare for the rest of us. It's driving up the cost of healthcare for us all. I could go on.

Not deadly enough _to you_. I'm sure those who are vulnerable will thank you immensely for your compassion.

by Jenk 5y ago

Not deadly enough _to you_. I'm sure those who are vulnerable will thank you immensely for your compassion.

johnisgood 5y ago

Do they actually prevent transmission significantly? Is there a study on this? I am curious.

bufferoverflow 5y ago
I saw one study, the transmission rate of the vaccinated was around 10% lower than of the non-vaccinated. It's good, but won't stop the virus from spreading even if everyone is vaccinated.
- johnisgood 5y ago
  Hmm, what about "everyone" catching the variant that causes mostly fatigue only? I heard it is related to common cold as well. If everyone (or the majority) caught it and went through it, we would have pretty good immunity against the more harmful variants, right?
  - bigodbiel 5y ago
    Well, lately even the CDC finally bend their knees to the alter of Immunology updating their internal guidance on natural immunity that "overall SARS-CoV-2-specific IgG remain detectable in approximately 90% of persons who seroconvert up to 10 months to one year post-infection" [1] [1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/vaccine-induced-immunity.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-br... I always joke that we should have placed all the elders, high risk, plus whoever else wanted, in stasis for a year, and let Rona rip!

logicchains 5y ago

You are aware that while the covid vaccines protect against severe illness and death, they don't prevent somebody catching and spreading the virus?

fer 5y ago
Are you aware that there are numbers between 0 and 1?
junon 5y ago
You are incorrect. The vaccine significantly reduces spread. That is one of the biggest reasons why it's being pushed. Please educate yourself about how viruses work. E: Ah yes please link to more preprints you scrounged up on Google to argue with the literal army of mutliple-degree-wielding epidemiologists.
- logicchains 5y ago
  Please educate yourself about how these vaccines work. There's a wealth of evidence showing they have minimal effect on reducing transmission: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.19.21262139v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.19.21262139v... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34176397/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34176397/ https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v6 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v...
shawabawa3 5y ago
> they don't prevent somebody catching and spreading the virus? No but they do reduce the chance you catch and spread the virus
- hammock 5y ago
  I hear people say this, is there data from the CDC on this?
  - shawabawa3 5y ago
    https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-s... "In September, unvaccinated persons had 5.8X Risk of Testing Positive for COVID-19 and 14X Risk of Dying from COVID-19 compared to fully vaccinated people"

Smooth-Weather 5y ago

Those who are vulnerable can take the booster if they want to.

TheRealWatson 5y ago
Unfortunately not everyone can take the vaccine.
- Smooth-Weather 5y ago
  Yes, indeed. But sadly, taking the vaccine doesn't prevent you from spreading the virus. In France, cases are still increasing even if more than 75% of the population is vaccinated. We are closing the nightclubs, again, (which were allowed to people tested negative or fully vaccinated) because the virus is still spreading in the vaccinated population. Fortunately, it adds a protective layer for you, but as we can see now: not for the others.

hammock 5y ago

Does the Pfizer jab infection and prevent transmission to others? I thought I saw Fauci and Walensky (CDC) recently lamenting that it doesn't. Most of what I hear people say is it prevents disease severity.

marcinzm 5y ago
Based on this it does: https://www.rivm.nl/en/news/vaccination-reduces-transmission-to-unvaccinated-household-members-by-63-for-delta-variant https://www.rivm.nl/en/news/vaccination-reduces-transmission...
politician 5y ago
It's a good question. If you Google it, the first page of results has articles reporting different reductions depending on the study, number of doses, and manufacturer. The range of results from a quick glance at a few of the articles is between 11% and 71% reduced transmission.
- hammock 5y ago
  Thanks I will check it out. Would love to understand how those square up with the many studies that discuss natural immunity and the low to non-existent reinfection/transmission rates there. I know so many people who recovered from covid (jabbed and unjabbed), are healthy now, and don't see a need for a jab/booster.
  - politician 5y ago
    I got the first two shots because it seemed advisable and I was willing to roll the dice on a novel mRNA treatment due to this HN post [1]. However, I'm confused and frustrated about the messaging on the 3rd. It's either only for people 65 and older, or for everyone if you can get it, or it's mandatory to complete your vaccination, or it's going to be a seasonal thing like the flu vaccine depending on the source. For me, it's worth pausing until the messaging stabilizes -- Omicron being universally reported as relatively mild really undermines the message that continuous boosters are necessary. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26628233 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26628233

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

chrizzy 5y ago
you do know you are spreading the virus though when you are infected

politician 5y ago

Do you always get a flu shot?

politician 5y ago
For context, the CDC reports annual hospitalizations from flu up to 710,000. So it's important to remember to always get your flu shot because it reduces transmission of another virus that can cause hospitalizations. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
throwawayboise 5y ago
I never get them.
Jenk 5y ago
Yes. Next pointless strawman, please.

swader999 5y ago

The vulnerable can and should seek out this protection without asking the healthy to risk vaccine injury. Herd immunity is impossible to achieve in a virus that can migrate in and out of animal reservoirs.

toss1 5y ago

Also, "neither_color" does not know enough to make that judgement - NO ONE knows that because the data simply does not exist. Hospitalization and death are severely lagging indicators - no one knows how deadly it is in what populations. This is about as stupid a sentiment as HR directors demanding applicants have 10 years experience in [New_Language] two years after it is invented. This sort of propaganda should have no place on HN

bnalP 5y ago

No compassion if gay and bisexual men demand to donate blood. That is awesome and progressive! Not being vaccinated is deplorable.

CountDrewku 5y ago

Why don't you provide us the death rate percentages on the "vulnerable". They're not pushing this specifically for vulnerable people. How many boosters do I have to get to protect them?

rocqua 5y ago

Besides, the non-deadlyness comes from being able to treat people in the ICU. That means places are running out of space in their ICUs. Hence peoples cancer treatments are being delayed because there isn't the ICU space to handle these treatments. The treatment of very ill covid cases has a massive cost in health to the general population. And the people requiring ICU space are predominantly unvaccinated. There lies some of the crux of the issue though. Because taking a vaccine to reduce change of death from 0.5% to 0.1% would feels different than taking a vaccine to reduce chance of blocking someone else's cancer treatment from 0.5% to 0.1% (numbers here are made up by me). Essentially the vaccine mostly protects others who need access to healthcare.

bobthechef 5y ago

There are plenty of threats to the vulnerable in the world. Should we therefore impose coercive blanket policies on everyone and across the board under the pretext of "compassion"? Is collateral damage unimportant?

Jenk 5y ago
Can you point to the spot(s) on the doll where the big bad vaccines hurt you? Oh that's right. No where.
politician 5y ago
You shouldn't be downvoted for asking this question. The silence of dissent has often led to tyranny.

chrisjc 5y ago

I'm constantly shocked at how myopic and self-centered people are when responding to comments like this. There are other ways that this virus impacts us all beyond just transmission. It's not all about you and your "plan" to deal with it if you get it. For instance, it's impacting people that need medical attention unrelated to COVID. It's impacting the lives of those left behind trying to piece together the assets and debts (ICU!) of those that died from COVID without a trust or will. It's impacting those that now have to attend a large gathering to celebrate someone's life. It's pushing doctors, nurses, etc that are directly exposed to this madness to their limits, thus impacting quality of healthcare for the rest of us. It's driving up the cost of healthcare for us all. I could go on.