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This is clearly part of DeepMind's long-game plan to achieve world domination through board game mastery. Naming the new algorithm after the book is a real tip
by sdenton4 5y ago
This is clearly part of DeepMind's long-game plan to achieve world domination through board game mastery. Naming the new algorithm after the book is a real tip of their hand...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Player_of_Games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Player_of_Games
- 7thaccount 5y agoPretty amazing book. I wish I could play a board game like that as well.
- stavros 5y agoI second this, it was excellent. I've only read a few Banks books, but this was my favorite.
- arvinsim 5y agoI started with Consider Phlebas but stopped because it seems too slow for me. Does it get better in the later chapters?
- vermilingua 5y agoIt does, but IMO it's probably worth reading The Player of Games or Use of Weapons before it anyway. With the exception of perhaps Surface Detail, none of the Culture books rely on any others. Consider Phlebas gives a good view of The Culture from "outside" (the perspective of the Idrians) but is quite slow.
- DylanSp 5y agoI mean, Player of Games has a pretty slow start too. I love that book, but the initial pacing is IMO its biggest flaw. I know Use of Weapons doesn't depend on any of the other books for its plot, but is it a decent intro to the setting? If it is, that's where I'd recommend starting.
- hesperiidae 5y agoYeah, it does take its time to build up, but in my opinion that just lays a stronger foundation for the latter half(-ish) of the book. Use of Weapons is more than a decent intro, but I'd still personally recommend The Player of Games since it isn't as deep and heavy in comparison, and the narrative structure is simpler. Of course, YMMV, but I started with TPoG, and reading UoW right after it was absolutely fantastic. I guess my biggest concern with recommending UoW as the starter would be that it might diminish TPoG, which I'm fond of, but I don't know if it actually would, since they're connected pretty much only bound by the setting.
- avemg 5y agoI've read (in order) Consider Phlebas, Player of Games, Use of Weapons, and Excession thus far. Use of Weapons was the toughest one for me to get through so far. I started it and stopped it a few times over several years and just couldn't get past the halfway point. I eventually got over the hump with it and devour the last half of the book over a couple of days (which is fast for me). So for my money, Use of Weapons is a bad starting point. My favorite by far is Excession but I don't know that I'd start there. I think the payoff of getting a story from the perspective of the Minds is better appreciated after you've heard about them and their capabilities from a distance in the preceding books. My pick would be to start with Player of Games. That's the one that was a page turner for me nearly from the jump.
- smiley1437 5y agoIf you find Consider Phlebas too slow, try Excession before giving up on Banks.
- speed_spread 5y agoEeh, Excession is very good but a still bit hermetic for an introduction to the Culture. It's the only other book I wouldn't recommend as a first along with Consider Phlebas.
- apetersonBFI 5y agoConsider Pheblas wasn't the best in my opinion. Player of Games is my favorite, but some of the other later ones are good. I enjoy the settings and the concept of the Culture more than the plotlines.
- hesperiidae 5y agoThe Player of Games is my favourite exactly for the same reason: it explores the Culture in contrast to the Empire, and even the drama is just an expression of the clash between the two structures.
- gman83 5y agoI couldn't get through the cannibal part of Consider Phlebas, was soo weird.
- wiredfool 5y agoThere's one scene or so in each one of his books that's just too much for me. I just don't need to donate brainspace to that sort of thing. (Use of Weapons has one, Song of Stone too.) I like 80% of his work, 15% is a pointless depressing slog, and the other 5% is just too much for me.
- bewaretheirs 5y agoThat confirms my decision to abandon reading the series after I hit a spot like that in Player.
- DylanSp 5y agoYeah, that was just...out-of-nowhere gruesomeness.
- wishinghand 5y agoI guess I just took it as another possibility in a society of nearly infinite ones. I did use material from that encounter in running a horror RPG, so in a way I'm kind of thankful for it.
- sidibe 5y agoUse of Weapons and Consider Phlebas are the worst of the series IMO. I powered through Consider Phloebus just because I knew people loved the series, but there's really no reason to start there
- arethuza 5y agoPersonally, I think Use of Weapons is by far the best of the Culture series - although I admit it took a few readings for me to get to that view...
- User23 5y agoHe does a really good job exploring the theme "what is a weapon?"
- hesperiidae 5y agoYes! And also, "why is a weapon?", "how is a weapon?" and "what isn't a weapon?" Really, Culture is a great setting for discussing a lot of interesting philosophical questions and topics.
- rishav_sharan 5y agoSacrilege! Taste is subjective, but Use of Weapons, imo, is Banks best work. I personally consider it one of the best SciFi, period. It's been years I last read it, but that ending still gives me shivers whenever I think of it
- NoGravitas 5y agoUse of Weapons is generally considered one of the best, but it has a complex narrative structure that makes it a harder read, and it's probably not a good place to start.
- gpderetta 5y agoI enjoyed Consider Phlebas a lot, but it is very different from the rest of the series.
- dgritsko 5y agoI started with Consider Phlebas because I wanted to see why people raved about the Culture series. I found it kind of tedious and slow, and although I finished it, I wondered what all the hype was about. I'm thankful that I picked up the second book though (Player of Games) - because I couldn't put it down; it was fantastic. I've stuck with the series since then (Excession was another highlight). I'd would like to revisit Consider Phlebas at some point, I think I might enjoy it more now that I have more context for the story.
- baq 5y agoConsider Phlebas is easily the worst of the series. My top 3 in no particular order are Use of Weapons, Player of Games and Excession.
- DylanSp 5y agoCurious that you put Consider Phlebas behind Matter (my least favorite, by far). My favorite is probably Look to Windward, closely followed by Player of Games and Use of Weapons.
- automatic6131 5y agoI always imagine the board game as essentially being SM's Civilisation but really, really good in an indescribable way - with some card games inbetween.
- 0_gravitas 5y agoI believe Banks himself said that he used to play Civ and took some inspiration from it
- bduerst 5y agoDefinitely for his later books, but Player of Games came out three years before the first Sid Meier's Civ game. What cool is that Paradox's Stellaris, a civ-in-space game, definitely takes pages from Ian's Culture series.
- 6510 5y agoThe end game is pinball and we are the balls.
- zeristor 5y agoWe are the pins.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- sillysaurusx 5y agoThe abbreviation is PoG too. I bet that was totally on purpose. At least one person in Brain is a dota player, so you better believe they watch twitch. Funny that most of the comments are about the name. What an excellent choice.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- WithinReason 5y ago"In 2015, two SpaceX autonomous spaceport drone ships—Just Read the Instructions and Of Course I Still Love You—were named after ships in the book, as a posthumous tribute to Banks by Elon Musk"
- omnicognate 5y agoShame they didn't go with Pure Big Mad Boat Man.
- chrisweekly 5y agoPSA: The "Culture" novels by Iain M Banks are fantastic and can be read in any order. "Player of Games" was the 1st one I read and still probably my favorite.
- bduerst 5y agoPlayer of Games is the second book, and the one I recommend people start The Culture series with. The first book Consider Phlebas isn't bad, but it isn't as well developed as the rest of the series IMO.
- hesperiidae 5y agoIt's a great starting point, since not only is the story both fun and interesting, but it also shows what the Culture's values and methods are in a very satisfying way by juxtaposing them against the Empire through the tournaments of the latter's own game.
- kmtrowbr 5y agoYes! I love this one. It's my favorite too.
- bewaretheirs 5y agoI keep hearing recommendations for the Culture books so I tried reading it recently and it just didn't work for me -- I gave up on it halfway through, which is rare for me.
- pault 5y agoWhich one? They each have a unique feel and setting.
- bewaretheirs 5y agoPlayer of Games (thought that was obvious from context).
- 5y ago