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What kind of drones is an adversary fielding in large numbers for a few thousand dollars per drone? And how far can said toy drones fly so as to reach a destroy

What kind of drones is an adversary fielding in large numbers for a few thousand dollars per drone? And how far can said toy drones fly so as to reach a destroyer in the first place? Unless we're talking about China or Russia, how are they going to manufacture, move and maintenance those drones once we've pancaked their infrastructure? The adversary will be under non-stop bombardment, all of their relevant infrastructure will be targeted, all major manufacturing, their electrical grid, all transport roads, all rail, all bridges, all ports. How are they getting the toy drones out to deep water if they have no ports? How will they manufacture replacement boats / ships with no manufacturing? And so on. Sure, if we're talking about war with China or Russia, that's entirely different. Then you're talking about something closer to WW3 (and good luck). Everyone else is trivial to cripple.

dragontamer 5y ago
I mean, I worry about "drones" like the DF-21. Except most people call the DF-21 a "ship-killer hypersonic missile" (with big questions on whether or not it actually works as China claims) That's the thing: "drones" that most people are talking about in these discussions are just really bad Tomahawk cruise missiles or really really bad ICBMs.
ceejayoz 5y ago
> What kind of drones is an adversary fielding in large numbers for a few thousand dollars per drone? I linked an example of such a drone up-thread; $5k. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/kamikaze-drones-new-weapon-brings-power-peril-u-s-military-n1285415 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/kamikaze-drones-new-we... > how are they going to manufacture, move and maintenance those drones once we've pancaked their infrastructure? You build the drones before the war, not during. > And how far can said toy drones fly so as to reach a destroyer in the first place? Doesn't have to be too far. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Hormuz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Hormuz We're on a thread about Pearl Harbor, after all. Load up thousands of drones on a number of container ships and do a surprise attack with them.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  > I linked an example of such a drone up-thread; $5k So that's what? 150 CIWS bullets per drone for cost-equivalency? ($30 bucks per CIWS bullet). Seems like a good trade, the CIWS can shoot down 500mph missiles, it will take out the much slower drone with far less ammo and far cheaper. You also know that warships would be stationed 1000km away, with an E-2 Hawkeye looking over the horizon (300km range radars). So the first thing the drone will see is the E-2 Hawkeye. The drones wont even know where the ships are, and the Carrier is already deploying a mass of fighters at the drone swarm. ----- Once the numbers are figured out by the E-2 hawkeye, the Carrier probably will deploy F18, which will use a 20mm Gatling gun to kill all the drones and return home. The drones won't even see where the ships are in practice. The best they'll ever discover is the E-2 Hawkeye through line of sight. All the ships would be "too low" and hidden away by the horizon itself. The CIWS won't even get a chance to shoot because the drones never even made it to the horizon (ie: 50km) of the ships. All the drones are killed 300km out. ----- There's a reason why China is mass-producing Destroyers. Because Destroyers work. Mass drones aren't really a strategy.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    > 150 CIWS bullets per drone for cost-equivalency? Sure. The scary bit of drone swarms is not the individual basis, but the fact that shoot down ten drones and your CIWS is empty. > There's a reason why China is mass-producing Destroyers. You don't think they're also playing with drones?
    - dragontamer 5y ago
      China is playing with DF-21 missiles and relying upon them. 200km/hr drones (or slower) won't be effective against any of the US Naval forces. There's a reason China is spending billions developing 5000km/hr homing "ship-killer" missiles. If a $5000 drone could even pose a threat against any US Warship, China wouldn't have bothered with 5000km/hr hypersonic speeds or research. ---------- The goal of China's naval forces is to search for the US Fleet. Once China finds the US Fleet, it shoots the DF-21 ship-killer missile at it, hoping that the Chinese Fleet can stay in the game long enough to provide accurate targeting against the US ships. That's called A2/AD, Anti-access area denial. This works because the missiles move very, very fast, so the US ships need to kill the enemy Chinese ship within 15 minutes or so (ie: the time it takes for the missile to travel from China to 1000km out and hit a US ship).

dragontamer 5y ago

I mean, I worry about "drones" like the DF-21. Except most people call the DF-21 a "ship-killer hypersonic missile" (with big questions on whether or not it actually works as China claims) That's the thing: "drones" that most people are talking about in these discussions are just really bad Tomahawk cruise missiles or really really bad ICBMs.

ceejayoz 5y ago

> What kind of drones is an adversary fielding in large numbers for a few thousand dollars per drone? I linked an example of such a drone up-thread; $5k. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/kamikaze-drones-new-weapon-brings-power-peril-u-s-military-n1285415 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/kamikaze-drones-new-we... > how are they going to manufacture, move and maintenance those drones once we've pancaked their infrastructure? You build the drones before the war, not during. > And how far can said toy drones fly so as to reach a destroyer in the first place? Doesn't have to be too far. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Hormuz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Hormuz We're on a thread about Pearl Harbor, after all. Load up thousands of drones on a number of container ships and do a surprise attack with them.

dragontamer 5y ago
> I linked an example of such a drone up-thread; $5k So that's what? 150 CIWS bullets per drone for cost-equivalency? ($30 bucks per CIWS bullet). Seems like a good trade, the CIWS can shoot down 500mph missiles, it will take out the much slower drone with far less ammo and far cheaper. You also know that warships would be stationed 1000km away, with an E-2 Hawkeye looking over the horizon (300km range radars). So the first thing the drone will see is the E-2 Hawkeye. The drones wont even know where the ships are, and the Carrier is already deploying a mass of fighters at the drone swarm. ----- Once the numbers are figured out by the E-2 hawkeye, the Carrier probably will deploy F18, which will use a 20mm Gatling gun to kill all the drones and return home. The drones won't even see where the ships are in practice. The best they'll ever discover is the E-2 Hawkeye through line of sight. All the ships would be "too low" and hidden away by the horizon itself. The CIWS won't even get a chance to shoot because the drones never even made it to the horizon (ie: 50km) of the ships. All the drones are killed 300km out. ----- There's a reason why China is mass-producing Destroyers. Because Destroyers work. Mass drones aren't really a strategy.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  > 150 CIWS bullets per drone for cost-equivalency? Sure. The scary bit of drone swarms is not the individual basis, but the fact that shoot down ten drones and your CIWS is empty. > There's a reason why China is mass-producing Destroyers. You don't think they're also playing with drones?
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    China is playing with DF-21 missiles and relying upon them. 200km/hr drones (or slower) won't be effective against any of the US Naval forces. There's a reason China is spending billions developing 5000km/hr homing "ship-killer" missiles. If a $5000 drone could even pose a threat against any US Warship, China wouldn't have bothered with 5000km/hr hypersonic speeds or research. ---------- The goal of China's naval forces is to search for the US Fleet. Once China finds the US Fleet, it shoots the DF-21 ship-killer missile at it, hoping that the Chinese Fleet can stay in the game long enough to provide accurate targeting against the US ships. That's called A2/AD, Anti-access area denial. This works because the missiles move very, very fast, so the US ships need to kill the enemy Chinese ship within 15 minutes or so (ie: the time it takes for the missile to travel from China to 1000km out and hit a US ship).