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Things have changed in recent years. Germany now has vaguely defined "hate speech" laws, meaning they can get you for any statement they don't like. It's not ju

Things have changed in recent years. Germany now has vaguely defined "hate speech" laws, meaning they can get you for any statement they don't like. It's not just about liking Hitler anymore.

rmbyrro 5y ago
That's troubling. Has it been enforced, however? Europe - and probably everywhere else too - has anacronic laws that are rarely if ever enforced.
- kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
  I'm not keeping track. Certainly a lot of things are being preemptively censored, especially on social media. People have also lost their jobs. It is not an "anachronistic law", it is a new law that came into being very recently.
- Sebb767 5y ago
  There are a few worrying cases. One person, for example, got his house raided for calling a politician a dick on Twitter [0]. There are also a few far-reaching laws, such as the NetzDG [1], which is being pretty harshly criticized. That being said, Germany has never been as pro-free speech as the US (holocaust denial, for example, is illegal for a long time already) and you can still state your opinion pretty openly, as long as you're not an extremist. [0] https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/pimmelgate-hausdurchsuchung-auf-st-pauli-nach-twitter-beleidigung-von-andy-grote-a-77f2d9c8-d497-42b8-a83d-e7cab892989b https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/pimmelgate-hausdurchsuchung-... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Enforcement_Act#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Enforcement_Act#Critic...
freemint 5y ago
Citation please?
- sneak 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straftaten_gegen_die_%C3%B6ffentliche_Ordnung_%E2%80%93_Gegen_ein_Verbot_von_Action-Computerspielen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straftaten_gegen_die_%C3%B6ffe...
  - freemint 5y ago
    That was literally 12 years ago and is not in effect and doesn't even have a German wikipedia page and the federal court would have nicked. Ist alles von der Kunstfreiheit gedeckt!
    - sneak 5y ago
      No, the censorship laws in Germany are definitely still in effect. The petition in protest against them was 12 years ago.
      - cycomanic 5y ago
        You need to be more specific then, which law do you mean? Because the "Straftaten gegen die öffentliche Ordnung" is a whole section of the StGB which covers all sorts of things ranging from the prohibition of running an illegal online trading platform, to trespassing or leaving an accident. The closest is the Paragraph 131 which prohibits showing violence for the purpose of glorifying violence or to degrade the "Menschenwürde" (not sure what a good translation is).
        sneak 5y ago
        Please see the paper linked in my sibling comment above: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29475379 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29475379 (tl;dr: Germany censors harmless depictions of gory violence in video games.)
        freemint 5y ago
        Science disagrees on you with the harmless part. It is shown that violent video games desensitise people with regards to violence, just as violent movies do except there is a categorical difference interactiveness. I don't like that fact either but to ignore facts because they don't mesh with my politics is bad.
cycomanic 5y ago
Germany always had hate speech laws. To run afoul of those takes quite significant effort though.
- kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
  It's not the same thing. It has been illegal to insult people or calling for their murder. The new laws in contrast are very vague and give the government much more room for interpretation. For example, from Wikipedia, "agitation" is not allowed. Merely disagreeing with a politician can be considered hate speech. It does not take a lot of effort, either, just using certain words can be sufficient. Germany now also seems to have the concept of "protected groups" that you can not critizize in any way, which I think is probably new. I am not a lawyer, though.
krageon 5y ago
> It's not just about liking Hitler anymore. What they enforce is Nazi shit and pro child abuse publications being banned. Really not objectionable at all. If you must be angry, there are many countries that are significantly worse than this.

Things have changed in recent years. Germany now has vaguely defined "hate speech" laws, meaning they can get you for any statement they don't like. It's not just about liking Hitler anymore.

rmbyrro 5y ago

That's troubling. Has it been enforced, however? Europe - and probably everywhere else too - has anacronic laws that are rarely if ever enforced.

kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
I'm not keeping track. Certainly a lot of things are being preemptively censored, especially on social media. People have also lost their jobs. It is not an "anachronistic law", it is a new law that came into being very recently.
Sebb767 5y ago
There are a few worrying cases. One person, for example, got his house raided for calling a politician a dick on Twitter [0]. There are also a few far-reaching laws, such as the NetzDG [1], which is being pretty harshly criticized. That being said, Germany has never been as pro-free speech as the US (holocaust denial, for example, is illegal for a long time already) and you can still state your opinion pretty openly, as long as you're not an extremist. [0] https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/pimmelgate-hausdurchsuchung-auf-st-pauli-nach-twitter-beleidigung-von-andy-grote-a-77f2d9c8-d497-42b8-a83d-e7cab892989b https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/pimmelgate-hausdurchsuchung-... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Enforcement_Act#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Enforcement_Act#Critic...

freemint 5y ago

Citation please?

sneak 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straftaten_gegen_die_%C3%B6ffentliche_Ordnung_%E2%80%93_Gegen_ein_Verbot_von_Action-Computerspielen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straftaten_gegen_die_%C3%B6ffe...
- freemint 5y ago
  That was literally 12 years ago and is not in effect and doesn't even have a German wikipedia page and the federal court would have nicked. Ist alles von der Kunstfreiheit gedeckt!
  - sneak 5y ago
    No, the censorship laws in Germany are definitely still in effect. The petition in protest against them was 12 years ago.
    - cycomanic 5y ago
      You need to be more specific then, which law do you mean? Because the "Straftaten gegen die öffentliche Ordnung" is a whole section of the StGB which covers all sorts of things ranging from the prohibition of running an illegal online trading platform, to trespassing or leaving an accident. The closest is the Paragraph 131 which prohibits showing violence for the purpose of glorifying violence or to degrade the "Menschenwürde" (not sure what a good translation is).
      - sneak 5y ago
        Please see the paper linked in my sibling comment above: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29475379 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29475379 (tl;dr: Germany censors harmless depictions of gory violence in video games.)
        freemint 5y ago
        Science disagrees on you with the harmless part. It is shown that violent video games desensitise people with regards to violence, just as violent movies do except there is a categorical difference interactiveness. I don't like that fact either but to ignore facts because they don't mesh with my politics is bad.

cycomanic 5y ago

Germany always had hate speech laws. To run afoul of those takes quite significant effort though.

kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
It's not the same thing. It has been illegal to insult people or calling for their murder. The new laws in contrast are very vague and give the government much more room for interpretation. For example, from Wikipedia, "agitation" is not allowed. Merely disagreeing with a politician can be considered hate speech. It does not take a lot of effort, either, just using certain words can be sufficient. Germany now also seems to have the concept of "protected groups" that you can not critizize in any way, which I think is probably new. I am not a lawyer, though.

krageon 5y ago

> It's not just about liking Hitler anymore. What they enforce is Nazi shit and pro child abuse publications being banned. Really not objectionable at all. If you must be angry, there are many countries that are significantly worse than this.