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There is a new "free speech" alternative called Rumble emerging. Rumble for now promises Not to become a censorship platform like YouTube is now currently. htt

There is a new "free speech" alternative called Rumble emerging. Rumble for now promises Not to become a censorship platform like YouTube is now currently. https://rumble.com/ https://rumble.com/ Even though some high profile civil libertarian and free speech advocates like Glenn Greenwald and Zaid Jilani have chosen Rumble as home, YouTube is still lights years ahead. But if they continue to censor, alternative free speech platform will emerge.

formerly_proven 5y ago
The problem with media platforms that market themselves as pro-free-speech is that they attract alt-right content - and their hyper-toxic followers - like a warm pile of shit attracts flies, even if that's not the intent of the platform operators.
- sli 5y ago
  A lot (but not all) of YouTube's problems would go away if they 1) used the actual DMCA and not their own system that allows for things that would be illegal under the DMCA and 2) stopped being retaliatory (latest example, deleting comments from creators critical of the dislike count removal). But they have a huge hegemony, so there's no incentive whatsoever for those two things to happen.
  - wruza 5y ago
    I bet they also know a lot of problems we are not even aware of, because these were fixed in trade offs they’ve made. Content id claims may even be beneficial to US-based creators because even if false, it’s still a [manageable] alarm before a real lawsuit, which creators couldn’t stand against anyway. They have a hegemony no doubt, but why wouldn’t another platform have it in the same position and under same legal circumstances. Investors be like “ah yes, it’s not youtube, so we’ll refrain from pursuing our goals and safety policies”?
- jimbokun 5y ago
  It does... ...but at the same time anyone who deviates from progressive orthodoxy in any way will be labeled alt-right. So in addition to the hyper-toxic folks, you will get people looking for a platform allowing debate and a broad range of ideas.
- 1cvmask 5y ago
  They also have removed many leftists as well. My favorite story is an advocate of censorship, the British leftist media group Novara Media, got itself deleted by YouTube. Once there was an uproar on twitter it reinstated them saying it was a mistake: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-59052155 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-59052155 Censorship advocates always get hit by the divine justice boomerang.
- duxup 5y ago
  I have this idea in my head that most people (users, even platform creators) think "free speech" and they mostly just think "my speech" or "speech I agree with". Beyond that there are some folks with some free speech ideals but even that devolves into "anything goes" and they turn a blind eye to the results because it is messy / unpleasant.
- solox3 5y ago
  Absolutely. I was one of the early members of voat.co (a reddit clone in C#), and never really used it due to a lack of content. Fast forward a few years, and that place became a portal to an alternate universe where Hitler won, slavery is taken for granted, and (he who must not be named) is the American emperor. The stimulating nature of extremism makes it really hard for a new platform to be pro-"sensible free speech".
- clarge1120 5y ago
  Cancel culture is hyper-toxic, and that came from far-left advocates. It's nice to see that something you disagree with strongly, like alt-right content, can be labeled hyper-toxic and not be downvoted into oblivion. It is encouraging that HN as a platform can tolerate a strong opinion without retaliating.
- kgwxd 5y ago
  Rumble just signed a deal with Truth Social. We'll find out real soon if Rumble has cracked the code to avoid that problem.
  - ryandrake 5y ago
    Kind of doubtful, unless they can also bring the mainstream over with them. That's the rub: Whenever a new platform starts up, marketing itself as the "free speech alternative" to some big, mainstream platform, what always ends up happening is the new platform's user base consists entirely of people who got kicked off the mainstream platform--leading to all the toxicity and problems noted in this sub-thread. You need to be more than a place where the cast-offs from mainstream sites hang out. You need to bring the mainstream to your platform too.
- renewiltord 5y ago
  Usually that is the case, and those people are just unnecessarily painful to deal with. Everything is an avenue to bring it back to their pet issue which is that their life sucks because of women, immigrants, brown people, god knows what. But I saw Russell Brand on the front page, and I recall him not being one of those folks so maybe these guys have figured out a way to not get overwhelmed by the annoying folks. Not to claim that Brand can't be annoying, but he's not alt-right and I can't imagine them both occupying the same space.
hknapp 5y ago
i'm impressed with how fast that site loads
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
bartread 5y ago
> Rumble for now promises Not to become a censorship platform like YouTube is now currently. Which is all fine and good until people start filing copyright claims, lawyering up, withdrawing adverts, and cancelling subscriptions. Not to mention the possibility of governments intervening. Sooner or later regulation comes, whether that's directly, or indirectly via market pressures. (Note that this isn't necessarily a bad thing - or a good thing, for that matter - just a thing. An example where it might be seen as more positive for, say, a government intervention to occur is Facebook/Meta. I'm certainly losing patience with Mark Zuckerberg's indifference to the individual and societal damage his platforms are causing.)
bdcravens 5y ago
99% of the users of any platform don't care. They want to see videos of cats, cartoons they can stick in front of their kids, and how to detach the door clips on a 2007 Camry. While I don't agree with the politics of the typical Rumble or Gettr user, I do believe sites like that are a strong part of a free speech society, but they'll never compete with the likes of Youtube or Twitter.
renewiltord 5y ago
Bloody hell. That site is blazing fast. I click and it loads instantly. The videos play instantly. It's actually genuinely amazing - though the design looks awful.

formerly_proven 5y ago

The problem with media platforms that market themselves as pro-free-speech is that they attract alt-right content - and their hyper-toxic followers - like a warm pile of shit attracts flies, even if that's not the intent of the platform operators.

sli 5y ago
A lot (but not all) of YouTube's problems would go away if they 1) used the actual DMCA and not their own system that allows for things that would be illegal under the DMCA and 2) stopped being retaliatory (latest example, deleting comments from creators critical of the dislike count removal). But they have a huge hegemony, so there's no incentive whatsoever for those two things to happen.
- wruza 5y ago
  I bet they also know a lot of problems we are not even aware of, because these were fixed in trade offs they’ve made. Content id claims may even be beneficial to US-based creators because even if false, it’s still a [manageable] alarm before a real lawsuit, which creators couldn’t stand against anyway. They have a hegemony no doubt, but why wouldn’t another platform have it in the same position and under same legal circumstances. Investors be like “ah yes, it’s not youtube, so we’ll refrain from pursuing our goals and safety policies”?
jimbokun 5y ago
It does... ...but at the same time anyone who deviates from progressive orthodoxy in any way will be labeled alt-right. So in addition to the hyper-toxic folks, you will get people looking for a platform allowing debate and a broad range of ideas.
1cvmask 5y ago
They also have removed many leftists as well. My favorite story is an advocate of censorship, the British leftist media group Novara Media, got itself deleted by YouTube. Once there was an uproar on twitter it reinstated them saying it was a mistake: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-59052155 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-59052155 Censorship advocates always get hit by the divine justice boomerang.
duxup 5y ago
I have this idea in my head that most people (users, even platform creators) think "free speech" and they mostly just think "my speech" or "speech I agree with". Beyond that there are some folks with some free speech ideals but even that devolves into "anything goes" and they turn a blind eye to the results because it is messy / unpleasant.
solox3 5y ago
Absolutely. I was one of the early members of voat.co (a reddit clone in C#), and never really used it due to a lack of content. Fast forward a few years, and that place became a portal to an alternate universe where Hitler won, slavery is taken for granted, and (he who must not be named) is the American emperor. The stimulating nature of extremism makes it really hard for a new platform to be pro-"sensible free speech".
clarge1120 5y ago
Cancel culture is hyper-toxic, and that came from far-left advocates. It's nice to see that something you disagree with strongly, like alt-right content, can be labeled hyper-toxic and not be downvoted into oblivion. It is encouraging that HN as a platform can tolerate a strong opinion without retaliating.
kgwxd 5y ago
Rumble just signed a deal with Truth Social. We'll find out real soon if Rumble has cracked the code to avoid that problem.
- ryandrake 5y ago
  Kind of doubtful, unless they can also bring the mainstream over with them. That's the rub: Whenever a new platform starts up, marketing itself as the "free speech alternative" to some big, mainstream platform, what always ends up happening is the new platform's user base consists entirely of people who got kicked off the mainstream platform--leading to all the toxicity and problems noted in this sub-thread. You need to be more than a place where the cast-offs from mainstream sites hang out. You need to bring the mainstream to your platform too.
renewiltord 5y ago
Usually that is the case, and those people are just unnecessarily painful to deal with. Everything is an avenue to bring it back to their pet issue which is that their life sucks because of women, immigrants, brown people, god knows what. But I saw Russell Brand on the front page, and I recall him not being one of those folks so maybe these guys have figured out a way to not get overwhelmed by the annoying folks. Not to claim that Brand can't be annoying, but he's not alt-right and I can't imagine them both occupying the same space.

hknapp 5y ago

i'm impressed with how fast that site loads

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

bartread 5y ago

> Rumble for now promises Not to become a censorship platform like YouTube is now currently. Which is all fine and good until people start filing copyright claims, lawyering up, withdrawing adverts, and cancelling subscriptions. Not to mention the possibility of governments intervening. Sooner or later regulation comes, whether that's directly, or indirectly via market pressures. (Note that this isn't necessarily a bad thing - or a good thing, for that matter - just a thing. An example where it might be seen as more positive for, say, a government intervention to occur is Facebook/Meta. I'm certainly losing patience with Mark Zuckerberg's indifference to the individual and societal damage his platforms are causing.)

bdcravens 5y ago

99% of the users of any platform don't care. They want to see videos of cats, cartoons they can stick in front of their kids, and how to detach the door clips on a 2007 Camry. While I don't agree with the politics of the typical Rumble or Gettr user, I do believe sites like that are a strong part of a free speech society, but they'll never compete with the likes of Youtube or Twitter.

renewiltord 5y ago

Bloody hell. That site is blazing fast. I click and it loads instantly. The videos play instantly. It's actually genuinely amazing - though the design looks awful.