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It's a bit paradoxical. I have a tech company and most staff want to come to the office 1 day a week. Getting them to come is very tough. Many of my staff and f

by jbrun 5y ago

It's a bit paradoxical. I have a tech company and most staff want to come to the office 1 day a week. Getting them to come is very tough. Many of my staff and friends don't want to have kids, make no effort to find a partner and find all sorts of excuses. Netflix, the internet and these things are part of the problem, but I have no clue what the solution is. There is only one way to not be lonely - be with people who care about you. That requires an investment of time and of your emotions - something many people seem unable or unwilling to do. You have to get out into the world and invest in others.

JKCalhoun 5y ago
All I can think: turn off the internet. Internet in the morning. Have your coffee, catch up on the news, your social. Then put the internet down for the rest of the day. Go out, ride a bike with a friend, go hike with a friend, go to a coffee shop, library....
- mandmandam 5y ago
  As apt as those suggestions may be for this crowd, they are neither practical or even polite for a huge proportion of the country.
  - therealdrag0 5y ago
    Can you elaborate?
    - mandmandam 5y ago
      There are many neighborhoods in America that don't have coffee shops, at all. And many that you wouldn't want to be caught dead cycling around in on a pushbike. On a broader scale, the median wage in America is only ~30k, while the cost of rent and basics far outpaces any increase in wages. So the idea that people would use the time off from their excessive working lives to go hiking is actually a bit insulting. The comment I responded to reeks of ignorance of the reality of the daily lives of so, so many Americans; who if they have any free time and disposable income it sure as fuck isn't going to be spent hiking up mountains and buying decent hiking gear. ... I visited Pittsburgh last winter, and was struck at the differences between neighborhoods. In Squirrel Hill the coffee shops were open and trading, the sidewalk was free of snow, people got their groceries delivered from Giant Eagle. In Braddock, the sidewalks were cracked to pieces, layered with demonically slippery ice that hadn't seen a grain of salt in years. There wasn't any cafe, or bagel shops, or proper grocery store; there was a dollar store and a bodega with people outside trying to sell me clothes, or threaten me because I only gave them a dollar. So I dare you, go to your city's equivalent of Braddock and ask them how much they like hiking. Ask them how much free time they have, ask them why they don't socialize in coffee shops. [I'm not shitting on Braddock - I liked it, there were nice people there, and many neighborhoods are far worse.] The reality is that poverty amplifies loneliness while reducing the ability to socialize, but so many Americans are happy in their little bubbles while huge portions of the country crumble around them. The world knows how unequal American society is, from welfare to justice to infrastructure; but wealthy Americans seem not to be interested (or to even think of themselves as wealthy). The blissful ignorance of most American's daily struggle is only blissful for the ignorant. This isn't flamebait or nationalistic prejudice; just my own observations about a country that seems to be racing blindly to an even darker place.
      - harambae 5y ago
        >The reality is that poverty amplifies loneliness while reducing the ability to socialize Without diminishing how incredibly unequal/bimodal some areas of America are, I wonder if the second part of this statement is statistically backed up. When I was poor I frequently interacted with different people waiting for the bus, riding the subway, hanging out outside the mobile home park drinking, etc. Now, borderline-rich, I find it much harder to interact with people. I drive alone in a car, live in a luxury condo complex where no one talks to each other, etc. (Although there's also a pandemic going on so apples-to-oranges) Stats seem mixed [0] [0] https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/are_the_rich_more_lonely https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/are_the_rich_m...
        therealdrag0 5y ago
        This is my impression also, that lower incomes are more social and community involved (church etc).
        mandmandam 5y ago
        The pandemic has affected the poor's ability to socialize far, far more than the wealthy. Your examples are each of choices you make that poor people do not have. The stats aren't mixed, they're "u shaped" according to your link. Again, the difference is that the wealthy are lonely by choice; the poor by lack of options.
      - therealdrag0 5y ago
        30k? Fwiw I think your stats are way outdated. That was like 1999.
        mandmandam 5y ago
        You may well think so, but no. Median income was $31,133 in 2019, according to the Census. Hence my point. Edit for the response below: Median income is not the same as median household income. Edit for the edited response: Sure, median wage in real terms is $35k, a whole 4k more annually. Keep in mind though that 85.8 percent of males and 66.5 percent of females work more than 40 hours per week; "the most overworked developed nation in the world". That's not out of choice, that's out of fear, propaganda and necessity.
- naravara 5y ago
  Doesn’t this depend on having friends who are off the internet too? In the before times, I’d go to get drinks with friends and often found they were chronically distracted. If there’s a lull in conversation they pull out their phones. I go to the bathroom and come back and they’re swiping through Tinder. I got married before the dating apps got popular so I never went down that particular rabbit hole, but I feel like they’ve severely damaged people’s ability to pay attention to where they are and who they’re with.
  - gjhh244 5y ago
    You can always find new friends once you start meeting people off internet. Tbh I find purely online friendships not to last long, especially now as an adult.
    - hvgk 5y ago
      This. Just hit some random shit on Meetup.com that looks interesting which bridges the gap to the real world. Online social is a complete shit show. You’re spending time with peoples outward persona not real people.
  - raverbashing 5y ago
    Of course. That's the type of "boomer solution" that a) solves nothing b) only makes sense for those who don't have that problem in the first place It goes the same way of telling "stop being sad" to depressed people or the most meaningless advice of "just be yourself".
    - phone8675309 5y ago
      Or, perhaps a more charitable reading may be "if you’re not staring at a screen perhaps you’ll meet people while out and form social bonds"? If you’re very online and you’re lonely being very online then proposing that you change what you’re doing to perhaps get different results is not the same thing as "have you tried not being sad????"
      - 5y ago
- pjc50 5y ago
  > go to a coffee shop, library.... Don't forget your mask. The pandemic is still on.
  - retrac 5y ago
    Not entirely sure why you're downvoted. I'm nearly deaf and I fully rely on lipreading. I've basically concluded I will have no social interactions in public until masks go away. I can't even make it through checkout sometimes without frustrating others. No one has the patience to try and bother to communicate with barriers. I can't count the number of times someone has finally screamed "never mind!" and made shooing gestures. Even the bus scares me. It's very hard to tell someone's emotional state both unable to see their face or hear them. I worry about being assaulted. I know hearing people experience a mild version of the above. It's the most visible aspect of how the pandemic of virus has led to the pandemic of loneliness.
    - mensetmanusman 5y ago
      Thank you for sharing. I had no idea that the introduction of masks has also had the side effect of making deaf people blind in this aspect. Yikes.
    - TurkishPoptart 5y ago
      I'm sympathetic to people with hearing impairment. It's a shame that most mask-wearing, at least in my area, is arguably "virtue signaling" as single-layer masks do largely nothing to prevent aerosolized viral transmission. N95s and other serious masks, on the other hand, actually work. So tired of seeing people walking their dogs in the park or bike-riding alone while wearing surgical masks. It literally does nothing except make me think those people are crazy. And this is in a county that is 85%+ vaccinated.
mrdoops 5y ago
They need stable, actionable futures. Homes they can afford to own, communities they can raise kids in, an environment that won't go up in flames; they need systems that have their back.
- jollybean 5y ago
  I'm sympathetic to the later part, but first part not what they want. They want the dynamism of being able to change jobs and careers, they all want the opportunity for career progression which for the most part isn't there (it's always been competitive). That means more risk and all the things that come along with it. I think even 'remote work' will have a serious of consequences we're not ready to accept, which is that it will make workers even more fungible. If someone literally can't show up for work ... then they're generally going to be seen as more easily replaced or changed around. We need to fixing housing costs badly though.
  - Kototama 5y ago
    > If someone literally can't show up for work ... then they're generally going to be seen as more fungible. It depends of the company culture.
  - zaptheimpaler 5y ago
    > If someone literally can't show up for work ... then they're generally going to be seen as more easily replaced or changed around. Remote is the _only_ option for 90% of great jobs if you live anywhere outside a few big tech hubs.
  - SQueeeeeL 5y ago
    https://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_why_good_leaders_make_you_feel_safe?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_why_good_leaders_make_... This talk really changed my thought process on careers. Basically every corporation in America is fundamentally unstable to work for, where you COULD be laid off for essentially arbitrary fiscal goals. That instability makes it impossible to trust your leaders (i.e. the company) to actually support you. As long as the people who pay your salary don't think long term about organizational health, people will be forced to play games and constantly job hop.
newaccount2021 5y ago
your employees will change their minds - when they are fifty and its too late. At fifty, people will have to accept that their successes are mostly in the rearview mirror, and since they likely won't be founding the next AI unicorn, they can finally accept their life and settle down. Problem is, they are now too old to build a family, and will have to settle for one-and-done online dating with others as equally desperate.
omgwtfbbq 5y ago
[dead]
jollybean 5y ago
I think the key insight in your comment is that adulthood takes a kind of social maturity and that we have crashed a lot of institutions that have developed over centuries and millennia, and that people (including everyone) don't quite yet fathom the degree to which they were a part of the social fabric. I wish education and homes were a bit less expensive, I feel a bit for Gen Y/Z as they've been through 2 existential crisis and definitely have some legit beefs, but on this one, I think they should be coming into the office, joining social groups. Political polarization, and not vaxx polarization is part of the problem, sadly every brand on the Internet that communications anything is a bit part of the problem, some more than others.
- panaffa 5y ago
  I used to read the newspaper everyday and cared about societal issues. After this pandemic & the response to it, I've lost all faith and excitement about society. My loneliness will only get worse
  - jollybean 5y ago
    The 'newspaper' is not a source of social issues, it's all political, particularly in the US. Your community is. Also, the global response to the pandemic has been the most amazing thing in human history: we have never been so rapid and coordinated. Never have international institutions worked together across the globe in concert like this. We had a vaccine crated before the disease even hit the West, we tested and manufactured over several months. Vax hesitancy is understandable, although the anti-vax stuff is terrible, it's mostly been an American thing. Even the coordinated economic measures, as crap as they are ... were on the whole good. If this were 50 years ago, we would be dying at 5x the rate and the Fiscal Policy / Central Banks I don't think would have reacted and we would be in a terrible recession with serious calamity. It would have been destructive globally, maybe even leading to war.
    - BeaverFirewall6 5y ago
      You bring up some good points, I agree the vaccine was a miracle and I hope we can find many more cures to all the diseases out there. However, I personally am more gloomy about how countries are witholding information about the origins of the pandemic, nations without domestic vaccines have been left behind with who knows how many dead, lockdowns + economic pains + supply shortages + postponed elections have led to terrible crises like the war in Ethiopia or the overthrow of democratically elected leaders like in Myanmmar. As for the "community," that has slowly been disintegrating in modern societies around the world. I can only personally attest to not feeling like I belong to one myself, whether it be a neighborhood, church, workplace, or anything else that people find community in. Not necessarily for lack of trying, but for not finding a group of people who deeply understand and accept me - aka loneliness.
Bancakes 5y ago
Why do you project your stereotypes and expectations over your employees? They're adults and if they wanted partners/kids/office work, they would go and get them. Maybe you're the one who has to adapt to the new world instead of 'finding issues' and even assuming you're the one to 'fix' your employees.
- nullwarp 5y ago
  Yeah I don't really understand their comment either - do you need a partner and kids to not be lonely? Maybe some people just enjoy the freedom of independence. Not everyone has to subscribe to the "get married and have kids" philosophy of life.
- tarboreus 5y ago
  Except that empirically, on average, they're miserable, by self-report. It's the most depressed generation. https://www.mhanational.org/number-people-reporting-anxiety-and-depression-nationwide-start-pandemic-hits-all-time-high https://www.mhanational.org/number-people-reporting-anxiety-... https://www.aecf.org/blog/generation-z-and-mental-health https://www.aecf.org/blog/generation-z-and-mental-health Not great reports but I've read actual papers on this in the past.
  - Bancakes 5y ago
    I see those are American self-reports. From experience, here around Eastern Europe, I am surrounded by people content with being single. If anything, life doesn't get cheaper.
    - tsol 5y ago
      So they say, but single people are statistically more unhappy to the degree that they don't live as long as married people. Saying this as a single person
      - Bancakes 5y ago
        Best response I can think of is 'Simpson's paradox'
MisterTea 5y ago
> That requires an investment of time and of your emotions - something many people seem unable or unwilling to do. Unwilling or stolen by tech companies who engineer addiction?
zelon88 5y ago
Do the positions your staff work promote having enough time and emotion left after a days work to go out and pursue those things? Does your staff have enough financial stability to make impulsive but fun decisions? How do you quantify your answers to these questions? By asking your staff directly? During staff meetings or Zoom calls? Or by actually watching the decisions they make and the problems they face? Many jobs out there use up workers like a resource. And the well is running dry.
pcurve 5y ago
I could be wrong, but do you think it's possible that your staff actually fall in the 39% bucket? That is, they either don't feel loneliness or feel too little of it to do anything about it. Otherwise I agree with you on dealing with loneliness.
bloopernova 5y ago
I've chatted with a couple of people who feel that their country (USA) is descending into chaos, and they don't feel like investing in a doomed future. I agree with the general feeling, but I'm trying to use it to motivate myself to have more fun. As to why people feel doomed: Republicans are putting the most faithful trump zealots in places to most influence the next elections. Remember that the Republicans believe the previous election was stolen. This gives them motivation and means to throw out results where Democrats win. If they do that, I'm not sure if the country will split or fall into civil war. The utter insidious evil of the election theft lie from trump is going to destroy the USA by removing any trust in elections.
- bee_rider 5y ago
  If people actually think their country has a chance of upcoming civil war (or many other crises like ecological collapse), they should expand their in-person social network -- mutual aid is an important resiliency strategy.
  - readflaggedcomm 5y ago
    Which is made all the more difficult when people react violently to your attempts to connect with them, because they perceive your political stance as a threat (usually through misunderstanding). No wonder we clam up and brace for war.
    - bee_rider 5y ago
      To be clear -- my comment is more about finding likeminded people who you can depend on if shit actually hits the fan. People who "react violently to your attempt to connect with them" are not great candidates for shit-hit-the-fan buddies. Crossing the aisle is another commendable but unrelated thing.
- bigbob2 5y ago
  So everything was fine before 2016? The DNC was tampering with the Democratic primaries before the 2016 election cycle. The ruling class decides what is best and everyone else is expected to go along with it with no questions asked, "or else you're helping Trump." When there is no more Trump, there will be a new Trump to replace him. Trump is a symptom, not the disease. The mainstream media beats the Trump drum because it's good for ratings and because talking about the overarching systemic corruption is too broad - every superhero story needs a villain. They would stand to burn too many bridges by targeting the corrupt groups that fund and connect them. As such the root of the problem is seemingly impossible to address. This is a reason why I feel hopeless about the future here in the US.
arthur_sav 5y ago
We've lost the community aspect. Previously, communities were essential for survival but nowadays it's easier than ever to be independent. Work remote from your computer. Buy food, water, sex and get dopamine hits from social media. When you don't really need anyone, it's hard to be vulnerable and try to open up to new people. So here we are, we have everything at our fingertips and yet we're empty.
- kelseyfrog 5y ago
  Lost? It was dismantled and it was done with intent. Let us not forget the people who did it and how they did it. "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families." - Margaret Thatcher It's much harder to build something than it is to tear it down.
  - tsol 5y ago
    How did Thatcher make it so Americans don't really bother to know their neighbors anymore(can your believe people used to borrow a cup of sugar from their neighbors-- now I feel like that'd make be seen as crazy)? How did she make it so that people feel like calling is weird and people should just text(and dropping by unannounced is just annoying, even if your a friend, which in the past was considered an occasion to show hospitality)? Did Thatcher make society secular so they don't meet and socialize at church every Sunday(with the subtext that the all knowing and all good wants us to do it even if we don't feel like it)? There are definite changes to society.
    - mandmandam 5y ago
      I believe Thatcher was used there as an example of the prototypical predatory neo-cunt, sucking value out of the common good and funneling it into privatized friends hands in a most-vicious negative feedback loop. In America, Reagan did a lot of the same shit; as did daddy Bush, Clinton, W, Obama, Trump and now Biden. There is bipartisan corporate oligarchy kleptocracy, and the Brits have caught up by defanging any people power in the Labour party via vile smear campaigns. In both countries the tactics are the same - buy the media, the police, and the politicians. Sell weapons to the worlds worst regimes. Deregulate finance and environmental protections, subsidize fossil fuel bastards, and privatize healthcare and every other common nationalized good from water to waste. The widespread fear and distrust and doubt you speak of is spread through the media with full intent by these people, so as to get away with more shit more easily.
jes 5y ago
Do you think there could be any beliefs or behaviors on your part that may be contributing to the situation you describe?
ljm 5y ago
You really have to know how to look after yourself, and be happy with yourself, before you can really bring another person into the mix in the form of a committed relationship (using the example of people not having partners or not thinking about children). There's been an expectation for a long time that your self-worth as a person is connected to being with someone else, and therefore your path to increase self-worth is through a relationship, and then through creating a family by getting married and having kids. It's not true though, it just forces you to get stuck in unhappy, abusive, or co-dependent relationships with other people because throughout all of your childhood and your formative years, you've been told that happiness is in the other person. That other person has to be responsible for making you feel complete, and you have to be responsible for making them feel complete. I think it's pretty bizarre that we've been taught to give up control over our own sense of self in that way. Nobody is making excuses, and the internet and Netflix aren't the problem, and it's not as simple as getting out and meeting people. A partner and a baby won't suddenly make you less lonely or more happy, more likely you'll just have two unhappy people who have to work even harder to make a living, and a child that requires therapy. The one way to not be lonely is to be happy being alone. If you're happy being alone, happy being with yourself, then you have a conscious and mature choice to make about whether or not you'll be happy being with someone else too. But if you think the only way to not be lonely is a relationship, then sure, maybe you won't be lonely... but will you be content? And if you can't get the relationship, will you just grow bitter and hateful towards the people who won't give you that happiness you so desire?
- helpfulmandrill 5y ago
  > You really have to know how to look after yourself, and be happy with yourself, before you can really bring another person into the mix. That's not really true though. We're born social animals, we die social animals. Being solitary isn't a means of "finding oneself" so that one is ready to "bring other people into the mix". It's just a way of slowly going crazy. There's a reason why solitary confinement is a form of punishment, or even torture.
  - kordlessagain 5y ago
    Solitary confinement could drive someone to think differently, but the point was that solitary activity, not confined, is totally tolerable by some and not necessarily a bad thing.
belorn 5y ago
As their employer there are limits to what you can do, and there is also a cultural aspect that is forming how people perceive the issue (Netflix, the internet, seeing a lack of investment from the individuals). There are things you can do to help. Provide flexibility, paid time and/or funds to do side activities like hobbies and sports. Have them participate in conferences or expert groups. Offer opportunities to test out new activities like diving, skiing, wall climbing, and so on. Not as a team building exercise, but as activities which employees can do to improve their own well being.
mym1990 5y ago
There is definitely not only one way to not be lonely. Of course we are social creatures and loneliness is a part of being deprived of social interaction…but being lonely and being alone can be 2 completely different states. And being surrounded by people, even those that care and support you, can still leave someone feeling lonely. If someone doesn’t want to find a partner and gives you “an excuse”, please don’t make it your problem.
basisword 5y ago
I think once you get out of the habit of these things, and there is nothing forcing you to do them, they’re difficult to find the motivation for even if you know they might be good for you. I know for a fact I would be happier if I went into the office every day (but still had the flexibility to work remotely in situations where that was necessary). But despite this I can’t find the motivation to go. The carrot doesn’t work, I need the stick - but it no longer exists. I think tackling loneliness is like most other things that are good for you (eating healthy, exercising, budgeting) - they’re hard to do even though you know they’re good and they’re relatively simple.
kordlessagain 5y ago
There’s another way to get over being lonely and that’s to be ok being alone for stretches of time. It can be recharging, for some.
floydian10 5y ago
I would love to go to the office more often, but honestly it's just not worth it. Nowadays I live in a country that is notorious for its strict work-life separation, and just trying to get to know people during lunch, or go out for a beer on a Friday is almost impossible. Most of the tech department is from abroad actually, but I guess cultural assimilation is a very real thing.
AlwaysRock 5y ago
I got involved with a weekly online poker game with some college buddies early on during the pandemic. It's been life changing. I know at least once a week I'm hanging out with friends and there are no expectations or pressure other than shooting the shit and playing poker. I'm drastically less lonely based on that one life change. It's incredible what a difference that can make.
- kelseyfrog 5y ago
  Fantastic advice! Lately I've been re-thinking how I've made friends throughout my life. I had some things right but some others were misguided. Creating intentional spaces was something right. I put myself into situations where I could be friendly with workmates during lunch and definitely felt engaged and friendly with the people there. Over the years though, it felt more and more hollow. We've had time to step back and think lately. I realized what was missing was emotional openness and that comes with a little vulnerability. While being friendly with workmates is nice, it isn't the place to show emotional vulnerability. I had set myself up to never be able to turn associates into friends. It finally clicked as to why people keep their work and friends separate. I'm glad you found your groove. The quality of life that comes with having deep friendships is incredible. I hope stories like these inspire others to take a step toward realizing deep friendship.
  - AlwaysRock 5y ago
    Absolutely. I don't get a lot out of small talk. (or "people talk") Some people do and that is certainly easier to get that from co workers. I like deep talk. Or talking about ideas. Sometimes you can get that from coworkers but typically that type of stuff isnt directly tied to work so its cut off after a 45 minute lunch or is relegated to office happy hours which is fine but again I don't find booze helps with actually feeling connected. It just tricks one into thinking they feel connected for a time. But that another topic entirely.
  - mensetmanusman 5y ago
    I like the adage ‘community is showing up’ Weekly seems important. I am part of a mens group that has coffee weekly at 6AM, it’s awesome.
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MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
>That requires an investment of time and of your emotions - something many people seem unable or unwilling to do In my experience, not many people want to invest in you unless you can benefit them. Oftentimes, I've personally experienced that they just utilize you for that sole purpose then discard you when you no longer suit their purpose. >You have to get out into the world and invest in others. As somebody who has attempted to do so many times, I've become far to jaded to take this advice seriously. People are liars, snakes, and thieves. They will steal your time or energy in one way or another if they just need to use you as another stepping stone to their success that they couldn't build up themselves. I have an extremely pessimistic view on people simply because my own personal experiences led me here. Get over wanting to be loved. Learn how to invest in things that can affect your life. And don't offer your time or money for free unless there is some sort of mutual exchange. Doesn't need to be a 1:1 ratio. But there needs to be an expectation that they'll continue to contribute in the future in one way or another.
lastofthemojito 5y ago
Is there a name for activity that we want to have done, but don't often want to do in the moment? You know how lots of people want to exercise regularly, but at any given moment when they could choose to exercise, they end up not doing so? That's how I feel about going into the office. A lot of times when I end up in the office I overhear interesting chatter I wouldn't have otherwise heard, or I catch up with a colleague I normally wouldn't have talked to that day. In the abstract, I wouldn't mind going into the office a couple of times a week, but on any given day I can easily come up with a reason why it makes more sense to stay home that day.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
I think a big reason we don't do that is that our societal narrative is one that focuses on self. In the US in particular we have a strong cultural disposition towards "self reliance" and "individuality", which often shows up in our politics as throwing our neighbors under the bus to save a few cents on our tax bill. We are encouraged not to think about the effect we have on the people around us and believe that we 'deserve' and have 'earned' things as an individual because that mindset is easier to sell to. Self-sacrifice is for other people. We even idolize rich celebrities and sociopathic billionaires. I mean, just look at this comment further down: > I've chatted with a couple of people who feel that their country (USA) is descending into chaos, and they don't feel like investing in a doomed future. I agree with the general feeling, but I'm trying to use it to motivate myself to have more fun.
DoingSomeThings 5y ago
This is similar to the concept of miswanting. Sometimes, the things we think we want aren't always what's good for us. Staying at home is easy and seems attractive, but is actually making us more isolated. Reducing effort sound attractive, but in the end removing friction doesn't actually bring happiness. Effort is difficult, but makes us better off in the end.
inetknght 5y ago
> You have to get out into the world and invest in others. I agree. So with the context of that statement I will give you my opinion about your other statements: > I have a tech company and most staff want to come to the office 1 day a week. How many of those staff have to do work in the office? There's no reason to go to the office if you can work from home other than to socialize with others. And I don't know about you, but I think socializing with coworkers leads to a very unprofessional work environment. I'd rather stay professional. > Getting them to come is very tough. As it should be. Work shouldn't be their only way to socialize. > Many of my staff and friends don't want to have kids, make no effort to find a partner and find all sorts of excuses. I don't want to have kids. I wouldn't mind a partner but I don't particularly make an effort to find one. What you see as excuses are perhaps your own opinion. I particularly think it to be really fucking selfish to bring a child into the world when the child won't succeed better than you. Despite the tech sector and certain trade sectors, the job market is shit. Education is shit. Climate is shit. Government is shit. Neighbors are shit. Why the hell would you think now is the time to have children? > Netflix, the internet and these things are part of the problem, but I have no clue what the solution is. But on that point I quite agree with you Everyone is different. There is not "the solution". There are many, sometimes mutually exclusive, solutions. For me: work shouldn't take up all of the time I would require to run errands. Other businesses' time are completely within my own employer's time. There's literally zero time for me to go deal with a bank problem or take the car or lawnmower to the shop. If I have an electrical, or plumbing, or stovetop, or refrigerator issue that needs immediate attention then I have to take time off of work to do that. And there's only a few weeks given for that. I've seen people have to take a few weeks off just to deal with problems and then they have zero time for themselves. Where are they supposed to find time to build relationships or fix the problems that matter to them? > There is only one way to not be lonely - be with people who care about you. I've been around for a few years. It's one thing to care about someone; I care about many people! But I don't really want to learn more about them because what they're interested in is utterly empty and devoid of meaning to me. I imagine it's the same in reverse: the people who care about me don't really want to care about the things that I care about. That's where loneliness is. You say you have a tech company and I see from your bio that you're "founder and president". How much steering can you provide? Can you steer your company's goals to align with the things that your employees care about? Because until that happens then I won't believe that you really care about your employees. You care about your company and, on the peripheral, are your employees who seem to be dragging their feet with regards to your company. And that makes you peripherally concerned about your employees but not meaningfully concerned. At least, that's the surface impression I get without knowing who you are, what you do, or anything about your company; an assumption. I hope I'm wrong :)

by jbrun 5y ago

JKCalhoun 5y ago

All I can think: turn off the internet. Internet in the morning. Have your coffee, catch up on the news, your social. Then put the internet down for the rest of the day. Go out, ride a bike with a friend, go hike with a friend, go to a coffee shop, library....

mandmandam 5y ago
As apt as those suggestions may be for this crowd, they are neither practical or even polite for a huge proportion of the country.
- therealdrag0 5y ago
  Can you elaborate?
  - mandmandam 5y ago
    There are many neighborhoods in America that don't have coffee shops, at all. And many that you wouldn't want to be caught dead cycling around in on a pushbike. On a broader scale, the median wage in America is only ~30k, while the cost of rent and basics far outpaces any increase in wages. So the idea that people would use the time off from their excessive working lives to go hiking is actually a bit insulting. The comment I responded to reeks of ignorance of the reality of the daily lives of so, so many Americans; who if they have any free time and disposable income it sure as fuck isn't going to be spent hiking up mountains and buying decent hiking gear. ... I visited Pittsburgh last winter, and was struck at the differences between neighborhoods. In Squirrel Hill the coffee shops were open and trading, the sidewalk was free of snow, people got their groceries delivered from Giant Eagle. In Braddock, the sidewalks were cracked to pieces, layered with demonically slippery ice that hadn't seen a grain of salt in years. There wasn't any cafe, or bagel shops, or proper grocery store; there was a dollar store and a bodega with people outside trying to sell me clothes, or threaten me because I only gave them a dollar. So I dare you, go to your city's equivalent of Braddock and ask them how much they like hiking. Ask them how much free time they have, ask them why they don't socialize in coffee shops. [I'm not shitting on Braddock - I liked it, there were nice people there, and many neighborhoods are far worse.] The reality is that poverty amplifies loneliness while reducing the ability to socialize, but so many Americans are happy in their little bubbles while huge portions of the country crumble around them. The world knows how unequal American society is, from welfare to justice to infrastructure; but wealthy Americans seem not to be interested (or to even think of themselves as wealthy). The blissful ignorance of most American's daily struggle is only blissful for the ignorant. This isn't flamebait or nationalistic prejudice; just my own observations about a country that seems to be racing blindly to an even darker place.
    - harambae 5y ago
      >The reality is that poverty amplifies loneliness while reducing the ability to socialize Without diminishing how incredibly unequal/bimodal some areas of America are, I wonder if the second part of this statement is statistically backed up. When I was poor I frequently interacted with different people waiting for the bus, riding the subway, hanging out outside the mobile home park drinking, etc. Now, borderline-rich, I find it much harder to interact with people. I drive alone in a car, live in a luxury condo complex where no one talks to each other, etc. (Although there's also a pandemic going on so apples-to-oranges) Stats seem mixed [0] [0] https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/are_the_rich_more_lonely https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/are_the_rich_m...
      - therealdrag0 5y ago
        This is my impression also, that lower incomes are more social and community involved (church etc).
      - mandmandam 5y ago
        The pandemic has affected the poor's ability to socialize far, far more than the wealthy. Your examples are each of choices you make that poor people do not have. The stats aren't mixed, they're "u shaped" according to your link. Again, the difference is that the wealthy are lonely by choice; the poor by lack of options.
    - therealdrag0 5y ago
      30k? Fwiw I think your stats are way outdated. That was like 1999.
      - mandmandam 5y ago
        You may well think so, but no. Median income was $31,133 in 2019, according to the Census. Hence my point. Edit for the response below: Median income is not the same as median household income. Edit for the edited response: Sure, median wage in real terms is $35k, a whole 4k more annually. Keep in mind though that 85.8 percent of males and 66.5 percent of females work more than 40 hours per week; "the most overworked developed nation in the world". That's not out of choice, that's out of fear, propaganda and necessity.
naravara 5y ago
Doesn’t this depend on having friends who are off the internet too? In the before times, I’d go to get drinks with friends and often found they were chronically distracted. If there’s a lull in conversation they pull out their phones. I go to the bathroom and come back and they’re swiping through Tinder. I got married before the dating apps got popular so I never went down that particular rabbit hole, but I feel like they’ve severely damaged people’s ability to pay attention to where they are and who they’re with.
- gjhh244 5y ago
  You can always find new friends once you start meeting people off internet. Tbh I find purely online friendships not to last long, especially now as an adult.
  - hvgk 5y ago
    This. Just hit some random shit on Meetup.com that looks interesting which bridges the gap to the real world. Online social is a complete shit show. You’re spending time with peoples outward persona not real people.
- raverbashing 5y ago
  Of course. That's the type of "boomer solution" that a) solves nothing b) only makes sense for those who don't have that problem in the first place It goes the same way of telling "stop being sad" to depressed people or the most meaningless advice of "just be yourself".
  - phone8675309 5y ago
    Or, perhaps a more charitable reading may be "if you’re not staring at a screen perhaps you’ll meet people while out and form social bonds"? If you’re very online and you’re lonely being very online then proposing that you change what you’re doing to perhaps get different results is not the same thing as "have you tried not being sad????"
    - 5y ago
pjc50 5y ago
> go to a coffee shop, library.... Don't forget your mask. The pandemic is still on.
- retrac 5y ago
  Not entirely sure why you're downvoted. I'm nearly deaf and I fully rely on lipreading. I've basically concluded I will have no social interactions in public until masks go away. I can't even make it through checkout sometimes without frustrating others. No one has the patience to try and bother to communicate with barriers. I can't count the number of times someone has finally screamed "never mind!" and made shooing gestures. Even the bus scares me. It's very hard to tell someone's emotional state both unable to see their face or hear them. I worry about being assaulted. I know hearing people experience a mild version of the above. It's the most visible aspect of how the pandemic of virus has led to the pandemic of loneliness.
  - mensetmanusman 5y ago
    Thank you for sharing. I had no idea that the introduction of masks has also had the side effect of making deaf people blind in this aspect. Yikes.
  - TurkishPoptart 5y ago
    I'm sympathetic to people with hearing impairment. It's a shame that most mask-wearing, at least in my area, is arguably "virtue signaling" as single-layer masks do largely nothing to prevent aerosolized viral transmission. N95s and other serious masks, on the other hand, actually work. So tired of seeing people walking their dogs in the park or bike-riding alone while wearing surgical masks. It literally does nothing except make me think those people are crazy. And this is in a county that is 85%+ vaccinated.

mrdoops 5y ago

They need stable, actionable futures. Homes they can afford to own, communities they can raise kids in, an environment that won't go up in flames; they need systems that have their back.

jollybean 5y ago
I'm sympathetic to the later part, but first part not what they want. They want the dynamism of being able to change jobs and careers, they all want the opportunity for career progression which for the most part isn't there (it's always been competitive). That means more risk and all the things that come along with it. I think even 'remote work' will have a serious of consequences we're not ready to accept, which is that it will make workers even more fungible. If someone literally can't show up for work ... then they're generally going to be seen as more easily replaced or changed around. We need to fixing housing costs badly though.
- Kototama 5y ago
  > If someone literally can't show up for work ... then they're generally going to be seen as more fungible. It depends of the company culture.
- zaptheimpaler 5y ago
  > If someone literally can't show up for work ... then they're generally going to be seen as more easily replaced or changed around. Remote is the _only_ option for 90% of great jobs if you live anywhere outside a few big tech hubs.
- SQueeeeeL 5y ago
  https://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_why_good_leaders_make_you_feel_safe?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_why_good_leaders_make_... This talk really changed my thought process on careers. Basically every corporation in America is fundamentally unstable to work for, where you COULD be laid off for essentially arbitrary fiscal goals. That instability makes it impossible to trust your leaders (i.e. the company) to actually support you. As long as the people who pay your salary don't think long term about organizational health, people will be forced to play games and constantly job hop.

newaccount2021 5y ago

your employees will change their minds - when they are fifty and its too late. At fifty, people will have to accept that their successes are mostly in the rearview mirror, and since they likely won't be founding the next AI unicorn, they can finally accept their life and settle down. Problem is, they are now too old to build a family, and will have to settle for one-and-done online dating with others as equally desperate.

omgwtfbbq 5y ago

[dead]

jollybean 5y ago

I think the key insight in your comment is that adulthood takes a kind of social maturity and that we have crashed a lot of institutions that have developed over centuries and millennia, and that people (including everyone) don't quite yet fathom the degree to which they were a part of the social fabric. I wish education and homes were a bit less expensive, I feel a bit for Gen Y/Z as they've been through 2 existential crisis and definitely have some legit beefs, but on this one, I think they should be coming into the office, joining social groups. Political polarization, and not vaxx polarization is part of the problem, sadly every brand on the Internet that communications anything is a bit part of the problem, some more than others.

panaffa 5y ago
I used to read the newspaper everyday and cared about societal issues. After this pandemic & the response to it, I've lost all faith and excitement about society. My loneliness will only get worse
- jollybean 5y ago
  The 'newspaper' is not a source of social issues, it's all political, particularly in the US. Your community is. Also, the global response to the pandemic has been the most amazing thing in human history: we have never been so rapid and coordinated. Never have international institutions worked together across the globe in concert like this. We had a vaccine crated before the disease even hit the West, we tested and manufactured over several months. Vax hesitancy is understandable, although the anti-vax stuff is terrible, it's mostly been an American thing. Even the coordinated economic measures, as crap as they are ... were on the whole good. If this were 50 years ago, we would be dying at 5x the rate and the Fiscal Policy / Central Banks I don't think would have reacted and we would be in a terrible recession with serious calamity. It would have been destructive globally, maybe even leading to war.
  - BeaverFirewall6 5y ago
    You bring up some good points, I agree the vaccine was a miracle and I hope we can find many more cures to all the diseases out there. However, I personally am more gloomy about how countries are witholding information about the origins of the pandemic, nations without domestic vaccines have been left behind with who knows how many dead, lockdowns + economic pains + supply shortages + postponed elections have led to terrible crises like the war in Ethiopia or the overthrow of democratically elected leaders like in Myanmmar. As for the "community," that has slowly been disintegrating in modern societies around the world. I can only personally attest to not feeling like I belong to one myself, whether it be a neighborhood, church, workplace, or anything else that people find community in. Not necessarily for lack of trying, but for not finding a group of people who deeply understand and accept me - aka loneliness.

Bancakes 5y ago

Why do you project your stereotypes and expectations over your employees? They're adults and if they wanted partners/kids/office work, they would go and get them. Maybe you're the one who has to adapt to the new world instead of 'finding issues' and even assuming you're the one to 'fix' your employees.

nullwarp 5y ago
Yeah I don't really understand their comment either - do you need a partner and kids to not be lonely? Maybe some people just enjoy the freedom of independence. Not everyone has to subscribe to the "get married and have kids" philosophy of life.
tarboreus 5y ago
Except that empirically, on average, they're miserable, by self-report. It's the most depressed generation. https://www.mhanational.org/number-people-reporting-anxiety-and-depression-nationwide-start-pandemic-hits-all-time-high https://www.mhanational.org/number-people-reporting-anxiety-... https://www.aecf.org/blog/generation-z-and-mental-health https://www.aecf.org/blog/generation-z-and-mental-health Not great reports but I've read actual papers on this in the past.
- Bancakes 5y ago
  I see those are American self-reports. From experience, here around Eastern Europe, I am surrounded by people content with being single. If anything, life doesn't get cheaper.
  - tsol 5y ago
    So they say, but single people are statistically more unhappy to the degree that they don't live as long as married people. Saying this as a single person
    - Bancakes 5y ago
      Best response I can think of is 'Simpson's paradox'

MisterTea 5y ago

> That requires an investment of time and of your emotions - something many people seem unable or unwilling to do. Unwilling or stolen by tech companies who engineer addiction?

zelon88 5y ago

Do the positions your staff work promote having enough time and emotion left after a days work to go out and pursue those things? Does your staff have enough financial stability to make impulsive but fun decisions? How do you quantify your answers to these questions? By asking your staff directly? During staff meetings or Zoom calls? Or by actually watching the decisions they make and the problems they face? Many jobs out there use up workers like a resource. And the well is running dry.

pcurve 5y ago

I could be wrong, but do you think it's possible that your staff actually fall in the 39% bucket? That is, they either don't feel loneliness or feel too little of it to do anything about it. Otherwise I agree with you on dealing with loneliness.

bloopernova 5y ago

I've chatted with a couple of people who feel that their country (USA) is descending into chaos, and they don't feel like investing in a doomed future. I agree with the general feeling, but I'm trying to use it to motivate myself to have more fun. As to why people feel doomed: Republicans are putting the most faithful trump zealots in places to most influence the next elections. Remember that the Republicans believe the previous election was stolen. This gives them motivation and means to throw out results where Democrats win. If they do that, I'm not sure if the country will split or fall into civil war. The utter insidious evil of the election theft lie from trump is going to destroy the USA by removing any trust in elections.

bee_rider 5y ago
If people actually think their country has a chance of upcoming civil war (or many other crises like ecological collapse), they should expand their in-person social network -- mutual aid is an important resiliency strategy.
- readflaggedcomm 5y ago
  Which is made all the more difficult when people react violently to your attempts to connect with them, because they perceive your political stance as a threat (usually through misunderstanding). No wonder we clam up and brace for war.
  - bee_rider 5y ago
    To be clear -- my comment is more about finding likeminded people who you can depend on if shit actually hits the fan. People who "react violently to your attempt to connect with them" are not great candidates for shit-hit-the-fan buddies. Crossing the aisle is another commendable but unrelated thing.
bigbob2 5y ago
So everything was fine before 2016? The DNC was tampering with the Democratic primaries before the 2016 election cycle. The ruling class decides what is best and everyone else is expected to go along with it with no questions asked, "or else you're helping Trump." When there is no more Trump, there will be a new Trump to replace him. Trump is a symptom, not the disease. The mainstream media beats the Trump drum because it's good for ratings and because talking about the overarching systemic corruption is too broad - every superhero story needs a villain. They would stand to burn too many bridges by targeting the corrupt groups that fund and connect them. As such the root of the problem is seemingly impossible to address. This is a reason why I feel hopeless about the future here in the US.

arthur_sav 5y ago

We've lost the community aspect. Previously, communities were essential for survival but nowadays it's easier than ever to be independent. Work remote from your computer. Buy food, water, sex and get dopamine hits from social media. When you don't really need anyone, it's hard to be vulnerable and try to open up to new people. So here we are, we have everything at our fingertips and yet we're empty.

kelseyfrog 5y ago
Lost? It was dismantled and it was done with intent. Let us not forget the people who did it and how they did it. "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families." - Margaret Thatcher It's much harder to build something than it is to tear it down.
- tsol 5y ago
  How did Thatcher make it so Americans don't really bother to know their neighbors anymore(can your believe people used to borrow a cup of sugar from their neighbors-- now I feel like that'd make be seen as crazy)? How did she make it so that people feel like calling is weird and people should just text(and dropping by unannounced is just annoying, even if your a friend, which in the past was considered an occasion to show hospitality)? Did Thatcher make society secular so they don't meet and socialize at church every Sunday(with the subtext that the all knowing and all good wants us to do it even if we don't feel like it)? There are definite changes to society.
  - mandmandam 5y ago
    I believe Thatcher was used there as an example of the prototypical predatory neo-cunt, sucking value out of the common good and funneling it into privatized friends hands in a most-vicious negative feedback loop. In America, Reagan did a lot of the same shit; as did daddy Bush, Clinton, W, Obama, Trump and now Biden. There is bipartisan corporate oligarchy kleptocracy, and the Brits have caught up by defanging any people power in the Labour party via vile smear campaigns. In both countries the tactics are the same - buy the media, the police, and the politicians. Sell weapons to the worlds worst regimes. Deregulate finance and environmental protections, subsidize fossil fuel bastards, and privatize healthcare and every other common nationalized good from water to waste. The widespread fear and distrust and doubt you speak of is spread through the media with full intent by these people, so as to get away with more shit more easily.

jes 5y ago

Do you think there could be any beliefs or behaviors on your part that may be contributing to the situation you describe?

ljm 5y ago

You really have to know how to look after yourself, and be happy with yourself, before you can really bring another person into the mix in the form of a committed relationship (using the example of people not having partners or not thinking about children). There's been an expectation for a long time that your self-worth as a person is connected to being with someone else, and therefore your path to increase self-worth is through a relationship, and then through creating a family by getting married and having kids. It's not true though, it just forces you to get stuck in unhappy, abusive, or co-dependent relationships with other people because throughout all of your childhood and your formative years, you've been told that happiness is in the other person. That other person has to be responsible for making you feel complete, and you have to be responsible for making them feel complete. I think it's pretty bizarre that we've been taught to give up control over our own sense of self in that way. Nobody is making excuses, and the internet and Netflix aren't the problem, and it's not as simple as getting out and meeting people. A partner and a baby won't suddenly make you less lonely or more happy, more likely you'll just have two unhappy people who have to work even harder to make a living, and a child that requires therapy. The one way to not be lonely is to be happy being alone. If you're happy being alone, happy being with yourself, then you have a conscious and mature choice to make about whether or not you'll be happy being with someone else too. But if you think the only way to not be lonely is a relationship, then sure, maybe you won't be lonely... but will you be content? And if you can't get the relationship, will you just grow bitter and hateful towards the people who won't give you that happiness you so desire?

helpfulmandrill 5y ago
> You really have to know how to look after yourself, and be happy with yourself, before you can really bring another person into the mix. That's not really true though. We're born social animals, we die social animals. Being solitary isn't a means of "finding oneself" so that one is ready to "bring other people into the mix". It's just a way of slowly going crazy. There's a reason why solitary confinement is a form of punishment, or even torture.
- kordlessagain 5y ago
  Solitary confinement could drive someone to think differently, but the point was that solitary activity, not confined, is totally tolerable by some and not necessarily a bad thing.

belorn 5y ago

As their employer there are limits to what you can do, and there is also a cultural aspect that is forming how people perceive the issue (Netflix, the internet, seeing a lack of investment from the individuals). There are things you can do to help. Provide flexibility, paid time and/or funds to do side activities like hobbies and sports. Have them participate in conferences or expert groups. Offer opportunities to test out new activities like diving, skiing, wall climbing, and so on. Not as a team building exercise, but as activities which employees can do to improve their own well being.

mym1990 5y ago

There is definitely not only one way to not be lonely. Of course we are social creatures and loneliness is a part of being deprived of social interaction…but being lonely and being alone can be 2 completely different states. And being surrounded by people, even those that care and support you, can still leave someone feeling lonely. If someone doesn’t want to find a partner and gives you “an excuse”, please don’t make it your problem.

basisword 5y ago

I think once you get out of the habit of these things, and there is nothing forcing you to do them, they’re difficult to find the motivation for even if you know they might be good for you. I know for a fact I would be happier if I went into the office every day (but still had the flexibility to work remotely in situations where that was necessary). But despite this I can’t find the motivation to go. The carrot doesn’t work, I need the stick - but it no longer exists. I think tackling loneliness is like most other things that are good for you (eating healthy, exercising, budgeting) - they’re hard to do even though you know they’re good and they’re relatively simple.

kordlessagain 5y ago

There’s another way to get over being lonely and that’s to be ok being alone for stretches of time. It can be recharging, for some.

floydian10 5y ago

I would love to go to the office more often, but honestly it's just not worth it. Nowadays I live in a country that is notorious for its strict work-life separation, and just trying to get to know people during lunch, or go out for a beer on a Friday is almost impossible. Most of the tech department is from abroad actually, but I guess cultural assimilation is a very real thing.

AlwaysRock 5y ago

I got involved with a weekly online poker game with some college buddies early on during the pandemic. It's been life changing. I know at least once a week I'm hanging out with friends and there are no expectations or pressure other than shooting the shit and playing poker. I'm drastically less lonely based on that one life change. It's incredible what a difference that can make.

kelseyfrog 5y ago
Fantastic advice! Lately I've been re-thinking how I've made friends throughout my life. I had some things right but some others were misguided. Creating intentional spaces was something right. I put myself into situations where I could be friendly with workmates during lunch and definitely felt engaged and friendly with the people there. Over the years though, it felt more and more hollow. We've had time to step back and think lately. I realized what was missing was emotional openness and that comes with a little vulnerability. While being friendly with workmates is nice, it isn't the place to show emotional vulnerability. I had set myself up to never be able to turn associates into friends. It finally clicked as to why people keep their work and friends separate. I'm glad you found your groove. The quality of life that comes with having deep friendships is incredible. I hope stories like these inspire others to take a step toward realizing deep friendship.
- AlwaysRock 5y ago
  Absolutely. I don't get a lot out of small talk. (or "people talk") Some people do and that is certainly easier to get that from co workers. I like deep talk. Or talking about ideas. Sometimes you can get that from coworkers but typically that type of stuff isnt directly tied to work so its cut off after a 45 minute lunch or is relegated to office happy hours which is fine but again I don't find booze helps with actually feeling connected. It just tricks one into thinking they feel connected for a time. But that another topic entirely.
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  I like the adage ‘community is showing up’ Weekly seems important. I am part of a mens group that has coffee weekly at 6AM, it’s awesome.

deleted 5y ago

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MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago

>That requires an investment of time and of your emotions - something many people seem unable or unwilling to do In my experience, not many people want to invest in you unless you can benefit them. Oftentimes, I've personally experienced that they just utilize you for that sole purpose then discard you when you no longer suit their purpose. >You have to get out into the world and invest in others. As somebody who has attempted to do so many times, I've become far to jaded to take this advice seriously. People are liars, snakes, and thieves. They will steal your time or energy in one way or another if they just need to use you as another stepping stone to their success that they couldn't build up themselves. I have an extremely pessimistic view on people simply because my own personal experiences led me here. Get over wanting to be loved. Learn how to invest in things that can affect your life. And don't offer your time or money for free unless there is some sort of mutual exchange. Doesn't need to be a 1:1 ratio. But there needs to be an expectation that they'll continue to contribute in the future in one way or another.

lastofthemojito 5y ago

Is there a name for activity that we want to have done, but don't often want to do in the moment? You know how lots of people want to exercise regularly, but at any given moment when they could choose to exercise, they end up not doing so? That's how I feel about going into the office. A lot of times when I end up in the office I overhear interesting chatter I wouldn't have otherwise heard, or I catch up with a colleague I normally wouldn't have talked to that day. In the abstract, I wouldn't mind going into the office a couple of times a week, but on any given day I can easily come up with a reason why it makes more sense to stay home that day.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

I think a big reason we don't do that is that our societal narrative is one that focuses on self. In the US in particular we have a strong cultural disposition towards "self reliance" and "individuality", which often shows up in our politics as throwing our neighbors under the bus to save a few cents on our tax bill. We are encouraged not to think about the effect we have on the people around us and believe that we 'deserve' and have 'earned' things as an individual because that mindset is easier to sell to. Self-sacrifice is for other people. We even idolize rich celebrities and sociopathic billionaires. I mean, just look at this comment further down: > I've chatted with a couple of people who feel that their country (USA) is descending into chaos, and they don't feel like investing in a doomed future. I agree with the general feeling, but I'm trying to use it to motivate myself to have more fun.

DoingSomeThings 5y ago

This is similar to the concept of miswanting. Sometimes, the things we think we want aren't always what's good for us. Staying at home is easy and seems attractive, but is actually making us more isolated. Reducing effort sound attractive, but in the end removing friction doesn't actually bring happiness. Effort is difficult, but makes us better off in the end.

inetknght 5y ago

> You have to get out into the world and invest in others. I agree. So with the context of that statement I will give you my opinion about your other statements: > I have a tech company and most staff want to come to the office 1 day a week. How many of those staff have to do work in the office? There's no reason to go to the office if you can work from home other than to socialize with others. And I don't know about you, but I think socializing with coworkers leads to a very unprofessional work environment. I'd rather stay professional. > Getting them to come is very tough. As it should be. Work shouldn't be their only way to socialize. > Many of my staff and friends don't want to have kids, make no effort to find a partner and find all sorts of excuses. I don't want to have kids. I wouldn't mind a partner but I don't particularly make an effort to find one. What you see as excuses are perhaps your own opinion. I particularly think it to be really fucking selfish to bring a child into the world when the child won't succeed better than you. Despite the tech sector and certain trade sectors, the job market is shit. Education is shit. Climate is shit. Government is shit. Neighbors are shit. Why the hell would you think now is the time to have children? > Netflix, the internet and these things are part of the problem, but I have no clue what the solution is. But on that point I quite agree with you Everyone is different. There is not "the solution". There are many, sometimes mutually exclusive, solutions. For me: work shouldn't take up all of the time I would require to run errands. Other businesses' time are completely within my own employer's time. There's literally zero time for me to go deal with a bank problem or take the car or lawnmower to the shop. If I have an electrical, or plumbing, or stovetop, or refrigerator issue that needs immediate attention then I have to take time off of work to do that. And there's only a few weeks given for that. I've seen people have to take a few weeks off just to deal with problems and then they have zero time for themselves. Where are they supposed to find time to build relationships or fix the problems that matter to them? > There is only one way to not be lonely - be with people who care about you. I've been around for a few years. It's one thing to care about someone; I care about many people! But I don't really want to learn more about them because what they're interested in is utterly empty and devoid of meaning to me. I imagine it's the same in reverse: the people who care about me don't really want to care about the things that I care about. That's where loneliness is. You say you have a tech company and I see from your bio that you're "founder and president". How much steering can you provide? Can you steer your company's goals to align with the things that your employees care about? Because until that happens then I won't believe that you really care about your employees. You care about your company and, on the peripheral, are your employees who seem to be dragging their feet with regards to your company. And that makes you peripherally concerned about your employees but not meaningfully concerned. At least, that's the surface impression I get without knowing who you are, what you do, or anything about your company; an assumption. I hope I'm wrong :)