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> Name literally one concrete example of a concrete and specific problem better solved by crypto than a classical solution Well let's skip past money transfer

> Name literally one concrete example of a concrete and specific problem better solved by crypto than a classical solution Well let's skip past money transfer as it's too obvious 1. Collateralised loans: The ability to take out loans on crypto-assets without any gate-keeper or credit checks 2. Accessible market-making: The ability to provide capital to a decentralised exchange to operate as an automated market-maker. Traditional financial markets require multiple millions in investment and advanced software to market make, but this could be opened to anyone. Imagine for example being able to invest not in SPY, but in market making a SPY order book 3. Quick and final settlement. For example stock transfers still take 2 business days to clear, a tokenised stock on a blockchain could settle in minutes and irreversibly NFTs have all sorts of uses for ownership tracking. An obvious one is event tickets - these could have anti-scalping measures enforced (only able to sell back to venue instead of being able to sell at increased prices to others)

arcticbull 5y ago
> 1. Collateralised loans: The ability to take out loans on crypto-assets without any gate-keeper or credit checks Margin loans have existed for as long as time - long before the SEC and Reg T. In fact, I do believe they contributed to the Great Depression. You can grab one from Robinhood for a tax deductible 5% or IBKR for a tax deductible 1.x%. No credit checks or gate-keepers. It's literally the least risky loan anyone can make to a counter-party. You just hit the "withdraw cash" button. > 2. Accessible market-making: The ability to provide capital to a decentralised exchange to operate as an automated market-maker. Yes, this is a great way of solving a problem crypto created for itself - illiquid markets for jars of air that is. In classical markets you can just buy shares in a market maker. Crypto's biggest market makers are centralized - Alameda Research and Cumberland/DRW. The latter is also a massive market maker in classical markets. > 3. Quick and final settlement. Yeah this isn't a technical problem, it's regulatory arbitrage. Settlement takes seconds in a classical system except when regulatory processes introduce delay. You can by definition "settle" faster in a MySQL store than in a blockchain right? > An obvious one is event tickets - these could have anti-scalping measures enforced (only able to sell back to venue instead of being able to sell at increased prices to others) Yeah that's something Ticketmaster can do today.
- shawabawa3 5y ago
  > > 2. Accessible market-making: The ability to provide capital to a decentralised exchange to operate as an automated market-maker. > Yes, this is a great way of solving a problem crypto created for itself - illiquid markets for jars of air that is. In classical markets you can just buy shares in a market maker. Crypto's biggest market makers are centralized - Alameda Research and Cumberland/DRW. The latter is also a massive market maker in classical markets. Buying shares in a market maker is absolutely worse than directly market making yourself - you can't pick and choose your markets, you are paying for staffing overhead of the company, you are paying a stock exchange and broker fees. Therefore automated market-making is something crypto does better than a classical solution.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    Ok, but is there any reason that you think a decentralized AMM would be more efficient than an equivalent centralized system vended by NASDAQ? Of course not, the latter would be faster and cheaper. It just doesn't exist yet. The former is boat anchored to the blockchain making it infinitely less efficient and more expensive. You're just describing an opportunity that exists in classical markets. No reason someone couldn't build it, faster, and more efficiently. Blockchain is an inefficiency and a liability.
- mNovak 5y ago
  If crypto replaces Ticketmaster, that's a win for us all
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    Sure but it won't because anyone can, today, throw a CRUD app on AWS that handles ticketing. The technology is not the reason Ticketmaster is successful. They're successful because of the value they add and the agreements they hold. They're owned by Live Nation. Live Nation owns the venues and manages the careers of artists. You're welcome to start a competitor today on AWS. It will be cheaper, faster and more effective than a crypto solution, and have all the same features. And it will still fail because the act of issuing and redeeming tickets from a technological perspective is not how Ticketmaster creates value. They're not a $24B business because they figured out how to print QR codes and scan them later. This is another one of the so-called killer apps that folks hold out to enthuse crypto audiences but it doesn't stand up to the slightest bit of scrutiny. The three core axioms of crypto hold that (1) if you think crypto is a solution to any given problem, you either don't know enough about crypto or about the problem - and (2) if you develop a real honest to goodness business around crypto you can immediately make it cheaper, faster and more efficient by removing the crypto. Lastly (3) you should do it before your competitors do to maximize your edge. But crypto isn't about solving problems or creating value, it's about selling blue sky securities [1]. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/blueskylaws.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/blueskylaws.asp

arcticbull 5y ago

> 1. Collateralised loans: The ability to take out loans on crypto-assets without any gate-keeper or credit checks Margin loans have existed for as long as time - long before the SEC and Reg T. In fact, I do believe they contributed to the Great Depression. You can grab one from Robinhood for a tax deductible 5% or IBKR for a tax deductible 1.x%. No credit checks or gate-keepers. It's literally the least risky loan anyone can make to a counter-party. You just hit the "withdraw cash" button. > 2. Accessible market-making: The ability to provide capital to a decentralised exchange to operate as an automated market-maker. Yes, this is a great way of solving a problem crypto created for itself - illiquid markets for jars of air that is. In classical markets you can just buy shares in a market maker. Crypto's biggest market makers are centralized - Alameda Research and Cumberland/DRW. The latter is also a massive market maker in classical markets. > 3. Quick and final settlement. Yeah this isn't a technical problem, it's regulatory arbitrage. Settlement takes seconds in a classical system except when regulatory processes introduce delay. You can by definition "settle" faster in a MySQL store than in a blockchain right? > An obvious one is event tickets - these could have anti-scalping measures enforced (only able to sell back to venue instead of being able to sell at increased prices to others) Yeah that's something Ticketmaster can do today.

shawabawa3 5y ago
> > 2. Accessible market-making: The ability to provide capital to a decentralised exchange to operate as an automated market-maker. > Yes, this is a great way of solving a problem crypto created for itself - illiquid markets for jars of air that is. In classical markets you can just buy shares in a market maker. Crypto's biggest market makers are centralized - Alameda Research and Cumberland/DRW. The latter is also a massive market maker in classical markets. Buying shares in a market maker is absolutely worse than directly market making yourself - you can't pick and choose your markets, you are paying for staffing overhead of the company, you are paying a stock exchange and broker fees. Therefore automated market-making is something crypto does better than a classical solution.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Ok, but is there any reason that you think a decentralized AMM would be more efficient than an equivalent centralized system vended by NASDAQ? Of course not, the latter would be faster and cheaper. It just doesn't exist yet. The former is boat anchored to the blockchain making it infinitely less efficient and more expensive. You're just describing an opportunity that exists in classical markets. No reason someone couldn't build it, faster, and more efficiently. Blockchain is an inefficiency and a liability.
mNovak 5y ago
If crypto replaces Ticketmaster, that's a win for us all
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Sure but it won't because anyone can, today, throw a CRUD app on AWS that handles ticketing. The technology is not the reason Ticketmaster is successful. They're successful because of the value they add and the agreements they hold. They're owned by Live Nation. Live Nation owns the venues and manages the careers of artists. You're welcome to start a competitor today on AWS. It will be cheaper, faster and more effective than a crypto solution, and have all the same features. And it will still fail because the act of issuing and redeeming tickets from a technological perspective is not how Ticketmaster creates value. They're not a $24B business because they figured out how to print QR codes and scan them later. This is another one of the so-called killer apps that folks hold out to enthuse crypto audiences but it doesn't stand up to the slightest bit of scrutiny. The three core axioms of crypto hold that (1) if you think crypto is a solution to any given problem, you either don't know enough about crypto or about the problem - and (2) if you develop a real honest to goodness business around crypto you can immediately make it cheaper, faster and more efficient by removing the crypto. Lastly (3) you should do it before your competitors do to maximize your edge. But crypto isn't about solving problems or creating value, it's about selling blue sky securities [1]. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/blueskylaws.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/blueskylaws.asp