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Crypto proponents are in favor of there being no technical restrictions that prevent such content being posted. An interesting possibility is that illegal cont

Crypto proponents are in favor of there being no technical restrictions that prevent such content being posted. An interesting possibility is that illegal content gets permanently inserted into a blockchain, which could make running, for example, an ethereum node very illegal.

api 5y ago
> An interesting possibility is that illegal content gets permanently inserted into a blockchain, which could make running, for example, an ethereum node very illegal. I've heard this called a "pee in the pool attack." Block chains like Ethereum and Bitcoin have one intrinsic defense: they don't support very large data objects. So that makes inserting CP problematic. But someone determined enough and willing to spend money could insert a really horrible image as a series of transactions.
- thebean11 5y ago
  At that point you'd need additional data (which transactions) and software in order to stitch things back together, at which point is it the (disjointed, seemingly random) data that's illegal, or the instruction set that allows you to assemble it into something illegal?
  - account-5 5y ago
    If it was the disjointed seemingly random data that was illegal I think that would make the number π illegal too.
    - dredmorbius 5y ago
      Mens rea vs. factus rea.
- Khartoum 5y ago
  Or adding someone's personally identifying information.. birthdates, addresses, SSN, etc.
  - Sirened 5y ago
    Or by running your botnet's C2 on it. There's no kill switch or sinkholing your botnet without killing the entire blockchain.
    - Tepix 5y ago
      You could cut off access to the blockchain instead
- adamrezich 5y ago
  has there been a documented case of this happening yet? one would think that there must have been, at some point, by now. but then I suppose if someone were to make a program that accesses intentionally-inserted distributed immutable data in a blockchain and reconstructs an illegal file (probably an image), then I suppose that executable or source repository itself would then be taken down by authorities and its author(s) prosecuted. but to my knowledge, this hasn't actually happened yet...
  - dogma1138 5y ago
    You don’t need a program to do that, you can easily embed a BMP or an SVG without a complex executable needed to decode the image heck even for more complex file format a BASE64 decoder can do that. Also if say CP is currently distributed through compressed archives even if they are PW protected it’s not like that 7zip then somehow becomes the illicit material. If you host the archive you are on the hook of distributing CP even if it’s encrypted…
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- wildbook 5y ago
  How about cases where there's not much data involved but it's still questionable whether or not the data is legal to share? Leaked encryption keys for example come to mind, but I'm sure there's other examples.
  - corobo 5y ago
    That one Blu-ray code would be interesting to see play out in a web3 world. E: I realise after digging it back up it's what you said with encryption keys but maybe someone else wants to look at the link too or whatever https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controvers...
  - madeofpalk 5y ago
    Has there been a case of an encryption key successfully being censored? They tried to censor the blu-ray key, but that survived 3 years before bitcoin was invented
- cesarb 5y ago
  At least for Bitcoin, there's another defense: what the blockchain actually stores on each block is the root of a Merkle tree which has the transactions as leaves. It's possible to discard unwanted transactions, and that only loses the ability of verifying newer transactions which chain to these discarded transactions. (AFAIK, the original intention was that most nodes would discard old "spent" transactions, to reduce the size of their local database.)
  - lottin 5y ago
    How do you verify new transactions without checking every single past transaction? As far as I understand, you need to know the current balance of every wallet in order to prevent double-spending.
dustintrex 5y ago
This has already happened. Nobody seems to care. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/20/child-abuse-imagery-bitcoin-blockchain-illegal-content https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/20/child-abu...
MisterBastahrd 5y ago
> Crypto proponents are in favor of there being no technical restrictions that prevent such content being posted This is precisely why they'll fail (aside from technological issues): the rank and file person on the internet does NOT want a Wild West when they go to visit a news feed. Hell, the average person doesn't even really like curated content. They want a chronological list of things they decide to be relevant and nothing else. Just look at all the complaining every time Instatwitter changes an algorithm and hides the method for sorting by most recent. And what they don't know yet is that all these big companies, if they use this technology, they're going to use them in very focused ways to reward people and prevent them from abandoning their platforms. Because "free" has many meanings, but none of them are inherently exclusionary from corporate competition.

api 5y ago

> An interesting possibility is that illegal content gets permanently inserted into a blockchain, which could make running, for example, an ethereum node very illegal. I've heard this called a "pee in the pool attack." Block chains like Ethereum and Bitcoin have one intrinsic defense: they don't support very large data objects. So that makes inserting CP problematic. But someone determined enough and willing to spend money could insert a really horrible image as a series of transactions.

thebean11 5y ago
At that point you'd need additional data (which transactions) and software in order to stitch things back together, at which point is it the (disjointed, seemingly random) data that's illegal, or the instruction set that allows you to assemble it into something illegal?
- account-5 5y ago
  If it was the disjointed seemingly random data that was illegal I think that would make the number π illegal too.
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    Mens rea vs. factus rea.
Khartoum 5y ago
Or adding someone's personally identifying information.. birthdates, addresses, SSN, etc.
- Sirened 5y ago
  Or by running your botnet's C2 on it. There's no kill switch or sinkholing your botnet without killing the entire blockchain.
  - Tepix 5y ago
    You could cut off access to the blockchain instead
adamrezich 5y ago
has there been a documented case of this happening yet? one would think that there must have been, at some point, by now. but then I suppose if someone were to make a program that accesses intentionally-inserted distributed immutable data in a blockchain and reconstructs an illegal file (probably an image), then I suppose that executable or source repository itself would then be taken down by authorities and its author(s) prosecuted. but to my knowledge, this hasn't actually happened yet...
- dogma1138 5y ago
  You don’t need a program to do that, you can easily embed a BMP or an SVG without a complex executable needed to decode the image heck even for more complex file format a BASE64 decoder can do that. Also if say CP is currently distributed through compressed archives even if they are PW protected it’s not like that 7zip then somehow becomes the illicit material. If you host the archive you are on the hook of distributing CP even if it’s encrypted…
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
wildbook 5y ago
How about cases where there's not much data involved but it's still questionable whether or not the data is legal to share? Leaked encryption keys for example come to mind, but I'm sure there's other examples.
- corobo 5y ago
  That one Blu-ray code would be interesting to see play out in a web3 world. E: I realise after digging it back up it's what you said with encryption keys but maybe someone else wants to look at the link too or whatever https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controvers...
- madeofpalk 5y ago
  Has there been a case of an encryption key successfully being censored? They tried to censor the blu-ray key, but that survived 3 years before bitcoin was invented
cesarb 5y ago
At least for Bitcoin, there's another defense: what the blockchain actually stores on each block is the root of a Merkle tree which has the transactions as leaves. It's possible to discard unwanted transactions, and that only loses the ability of verifying newer transactions which chain to these discarded transactions. (AFAIK, the original intention was that most nodes would discard old "spent" transactions, to reduce the size of their local database.)
- lottin 5y ago
  How do you verify new transactions without checking every single past transaction? As far as I understand, you need to know the current balance of every wallet in order to prevent double-spending.

dustintrex 5y ago

This has already happened. Nobody seems to care. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/20/child-abuse-imagery-bitcoin-blockchain-illegal-content https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/20/child-abu...

MisterBastahrd 5y ago

> Crypto proponents are in favor of there being no technical restrictions that prevent such content being posted This is precisely why they'll fail (aside from technological issues): the rank and file person on the internet does NOT want a Wild West when they go to visit a news feed. Hell, the average person doesn't even really like curated content. They want a chronological list of things they decide to be relevant and nothing else. Just look at all the complaining every time Instatwitter changes an algorithm and hides the method for sorting by most recent. And what they don't know yet is that all these big companies, if they use this technology, they're going to use them in very focused ways to reward people and prevent them from abandoning their platforms. Because "free" has many meanings, but none of them are inherently exclusionary from corporate competition.