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This seems kind of silly. Should radio equipment manufacturers be liable for the Rwandan genocide? I'm not fan of Facebook (I don't even have an account) but re

This seems kind of silly. Should radio equipment manufacturers be liable for the Rwandan genocide? I'm not fan of Facebook (I don't even have an account) but requiring them to fulfill a function that the Burmese government didn't do seems shortsighted.

kelseyfrog 5y ago
If radio equipment manufacturers built their business on choosing which messages to promote would it change things?
tintor 5y ago
Radio equipment manufacturers don't specifically amplify messages that incite outrage, and also don't perform mass psychological experiments on their users [1]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/02/facebook-apologises-psychological-experiments-on-users https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/02/facebook-...
- ascagnel_ 5y ago
  And there's a difference between something like a forum that moderates versus what Facebook's algorithm is doing -- one is reactive to its users (and generally reacting based on what other users believe is inappropriate conduct), while the algorithm is proactive in pushing content to users.
- fallingknife 5y ago
  When other companies do it, it's an A/B test. When FB does it, it's a "mass psychological experiment." What a joke.
ChemSpider 5y ago
If they can not fulfill that, then they should offer their service in such countries, or at the very least stop doing it once they became aware of the issue. Facebook's scale comes with responsibility.
anm89 5y ago
Yeah but Facebook is eager to take on the moderator role. They would have been much smarter to, like a radio provider or telco say: "we are just the pipeline, we are happy to follow all court orders but we aren't moderating past that", but now that they have actively embraced these kind of moderator roles they've lost the ability to make that claim.
- crate_barre 5y ago
  That’s a great point, and one can argue that there are lower hanging fruit with respect to this hill they’ve chose to die on. Lots of inconclusive stuff got moderated down about Covid (origins, vaccine discussions, masks, so on) by both YouTube and Facebook. It feels like that’s a way easier case to win initially than proving genocide.
- nradov 5y ago
  Facebook moderates content heavily because that's what advertisers want. The major ad buyers don't want their ads to show up next to anything highly offensive. So no, from a profit standpoint it wouldn't be smarter to stop moderating.
  - anm89 5y ago
    I agree however time will tell if caving was the best business move. They had a ton of leverage and they could have said no. Now they have opened themselves to essentially unlimited legal liability.
  - kelseyfrog 5y ago
    Yes, we understand the incentives. My kids want to stay up past their bedtime, but I still say no because of the consequences the next day. I'm sure you agree that simply because someone wants you to do something it has no bearing on whether it was the correct choice or not.
tenebrisalietum 5y ago
What if the radio equipment had algorithms that spied on your communication and used that information to help you find people and groups that facilitated genocide?
bryanrasmussen 5y ago
When you use our special transmitters and your listeners use our special headphones, then the headphones will send an encoded signal saying their owner is more liable to be affected by broadcasts urging genocide! This allows you to use the differential broadcasting properties of our transmitter to send special commit genocide now messages to genocide ready users of our headphones while continuing to send innocuous look at this cute bunny pictures to people who will soon be killed! Buy now, operators are standing by. on edit: I guess it should be innocuous renditions of The Little Drummer boy to stick to the analogy, but I was momentarily taken by the little bunny idea.

kelseyfrog 5y ago

If radio equipment manufacturers built their business on choosing which messages to promote would it change things?

tintor 5y ago

Radio equipment manufacturers don't specifically amplify messages that incite outrage, and also don't perform mass psychological experiments on their users [1]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/02/facebook-apologises-psychological-experiments-on-users https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/02/facebook-...

ascagnel_ 5y ago
And there's a difference between something like a forum that moderates versus what Facebook's algorithm is doing -- one is reactive to its users (and generally reacting based on what other users believe is inappropriate conduct), while the algorithm is proactive in pushing content to users.
fallingknife 5y ago
When other companies do it, it's an A/B test. When FB does it, it's a "mass psychological experiment." What a joke.

ChemSpider 5y ago

If they can not fulfill that, then they should offer their service in such countries, or at the very least stop doing it once they became aware of the issue. Facebook's scale comes with responsibility.

anm89 5y ago

Yeah but Facebook is eager to take on the moderator role. They would have been much smarter to, like a radio provider or telco say: "we are just the pipeline, we are happy to follow all court orders but we aren't moderating past that", but now that they have actively embraced these kind of moderator roles they've lost the ability to make that claim.

crate_barre 5y ago
That’s a great point, and one can argue that there are lower hanging fruit with respect to this hill they’ve chose to die on. Lots of inconclusive stuff got moderated down about Covid (origins, vaccine discussions, masks, so on) by both YouTube and Facebook. It feels like that’s a way easier case to win initially than proving genocide.
nradov 5y ago
Facebook moderates content heavily because that's what advertisers want. The major ad buyers don't want their ads to show up next to anything highly offensive. So no, from a profit standpoint it wouldn't be smarter to stop moderating.
- anm89 5y ago
  I agree however time will tell if caving was the best business move. They had a ton of leverage and they could have said no. Now they have opened themselves to essentially unlimited legal liability.
- kelseyfrog 5y ago
  Yes, we understand the incentives. My kids want to stay up past their bedtime, but I still say no because of the consequences the next day. I'm sure you agree that simply because someone wants you to do something it has no bearing on whether it was the correct choice or not.

tenebrisalietum 5y ago

What if the radio equipment had algorithms that spied on your communication and used that information to help you find people and groups that facilitated genocide?

bryanrasmussen 5y ago

When you use our special transmitters and your listeners use our special headphones, then the headphones will send an encoded signal saying their owner is more liable to be affected by broadcasts urging genocide! This allows you to use the differential broadcasting properties of our transmitter to send special commit genocide now messages to genocide ready users of our headphones while continuing to send innocuous look at this cute bunny pictures to people who will soon be killed! Buy now, operators are standing by. on edit: I guess it should be innocuous renditions of The Little Drummer boy to stick to the analogy, but I was momentarily taken by the little bunny idea.