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I know this looks bad but I generally appreciate manage giving clear warnings like this before firing. I have seen firings in companies where employee had no cl
by YetAnotherNick 5y ago
I know this looks bad but I generally appreciate manage giving clear warnings like this before firing. I have seen firings in companies where employee had no clue that the manager was not happy with him. I know this type of warning is the thing that would get published in the press by disgruntled employee and so managers couldn't give negative feedback and in the firing speech managers just tell that someone is not a good fit for the company or some other HR shit.
- chrisseaton 5y agoI think you can warn people about their performance without using abuse.
- djrogers 5y agoAbuse? Really? Is a single email where someone vents frustration for 2 lines actually abuse?
- chrisseaton 5y agoYes name calling - 'dumb'.
- obstacle1 5y agoSay a couple has a good relationship. One day, Partner A has a bad day at work. A comes home and screams at Partner B: "you're dumb! you're slow! why isn't dinner ready? you're a dolphin!" Partner A was just venting frustration after having a terrible day. Is that abuse? YES! Unequivocally, yes. There is no excuse for insulting, yelling, or otherwise treating other human beings as lesser than. It's abuse, always, even one time. And frankly if it happens once, it's very unlikely it isn't a repeated pattern of behavior.
- stormcode 5y agoYes, in my opinion it is. Think about abuse in other contexts to put it in perspective. If a teacher in the middle of giving a homework assignment had said the same thing, would that be okay? What about a police officer who pulled someone over during a traffic stop? What about a customer at a drive thru saying this into the speaker? This is not a random person on the street corner shouting at other random passers by. This guy is in a position of power over the people he is communicating with.
- lordnacho 5y agoAbsolutely right. You can smash a good relationship in a few seconds, even if it was one that took years to build.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- rkk3 5y ago> Think about abuse in other contexts to put it in perspective. If a teacher in the middle of giving a homework assignment had said the same thing, would that be okay? What about a police officer who pulled someone over during a traffic stop? What about a customer at a drive thru saying this into the speaker? Calling a group of people "DUMB DOLPHINS" on an email chain ... Inappropriate, un professional, dis-respectful all seem like a better way to characterize it. Its like the reverse of when Prince Andrew described Jeffrey Epstein behavior as "Un-Becoming". There is probably a better way to characterize it.
- stormcode 5y agoI dunno. Seems clearly abusive to me from someone in a position of power. This wasn't said among friends at a bar or by or about someone unrelated to the people in question. It was their boss, or bosses boss.
- rkk3 5y agomy heart goes out to all the victims of abuse, but not the ones that one time were on an email chain and their bosses-boss called the team they were on a bunch of "dumb dolphins"
- cjaybo 5y agoI didn't know verbal/emotional abuse requires a minimum word count! Please tell, what is the magic number that serves as the threshold?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- YetAnotherNick 5y agoI knew you would get downvoted. HN is a weird mixture of professionalism and childishness. Getting angry at two lines without context/relationship with manager is all I could expect from here.
- obstacle1 5y agoIn what context would it be OK for a CEO to send ENTHUSIASTICALLY YELLING e-mails to employees telling them they are SLOW DUMB DOLPHINS and to STOP EMBARRASSING ME STOP IT STOP IT RIGHT NOW...? Also how would our knowing more about the CEO/employee relationship here improve our perception? The most "positive" thing I can think of is, the employees are so used to it they would tell us something like "oh, that's just CEO, he communicates really passionately". That's not actually positive, though. It's Stockholm Syndrome. [1] [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
- danShumway 5y ago> I knew you would get downvoted Hold on though. You don't have the full context/relationship between GP and the people who downvoted them. It would be irresponsible for you to jump to conclusions about Hackernews or those commenters based on just a one-line grayed out comment.
- wonderwonder 5y agoIf you think allowing someone with a massive power differential to call you dumb and degrade you is not abuse then you have been working and some pretty terrible places and I hope you find somewhere better.
- rkk3 5y agoAgreed, to characterize it as such is a dis-service to people who have suffered abuse in the workplace.
- obstacle1 5y ago"You're moving slowly and dropping tasks. That is impacting the business and we are losing customers. This needs to change by next month/quarter/whatever." vs. "YOU ARE A DUMB DOLPHIN BLAH BLAH BLAH" Massive difference. The former is a warning rooted in a sincere desire to lead the org/employee towards positive change. The latter is verbal abuse that accomplishes nothing but placating the ego of the abuser.
- pirate787 5y agoThe context here is the mortgage market is declining as rates rise. These are people who mostly were performing but there's no longer a market fit.
- blablabla123 5y agoIt's possible to be really clear without going ad hominem. Reality is usually already harsh enough. I'd prefer the first with a clear indication that the company will probably not be able to continue keeping to employee since they need to save a lot of costs. So the person can get a new job in time. IMHO it should be the minimum standard for anyone working in management to maintain a respectful and clear communication.
- daenney 5y agoWhat warning? 900 people were let go without any warning best I can tell.
- b3morales 5y agoIn what way is that message "clear"? It reads like a temper tantrum from a pre-teen, not a manager providing negative feedback to an employee.