5 ms·

Good news - you should be using Signal anyway

unobatbayar 5y ago
Signal seems too good to be true. If anything is perfectly private/secure it won't be allowed to exist due to regulations or government agenda(which creates these regulations). Just like any crypto with anonymous protocols never get listed on exchanges.
- neckardt 5y ago
  > If anything is perfectly private/secure it won't be allowed to exist due to regulations. Why? I was under the impression that these days the NSA and other government agencies prefer perfect security since if they can crack the security then other governments could too. By forcing imperfect security the US would give up a large part of its advantage.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
Schroedingersat 5y ago
Centralized services will all suffer the same fate. XMPP was the correct answer 20 years ago, and (with an encryption layer) it's the correct answer now. Matrix and activitypub are also valid answers.
- barbazoo 5y ago
  I'm not sure what makes you the authority of valid answers in this topic but as someone who has tried movie their extended family to Matrix, I'd take that option with a grain of salt. It's a lot more complicated than choosing the objectively best product.
  - Djejdbdbsjs123 5y ago
    I'm curious why I frequently hear that Matrix/Element are more difficult to use than Signal, Telegram, Whatsapp, etc. I set it up for my elderly parents who just got their first smartphone a few months ago, and it's been going very smoothly. What are the complications that others seem to be having?
    - barbazoo 5y ago
      The more technical people in our group tried to register accounts but we were never able to "find" or message each other. It was orders of magnitude more difficult than getting started with telegram or signal. Don't get me wrong, I do want to use Matrix, it was just not feasible at the time. I do know that it's technically the more sustainable choice.
      - Djejdbdbsjs123 5y ago
        I see. I've only added contacts in person via QR code. I guess it would be more difficult without that.
        johnisgood 5y ago
        Yeah, you just do a single click on "+" (which says "Start chat"), and then it says on top "Start a conversation with someone using their name, email address or username (like @foobar:matrix.org).", so you just type in @username:server. Is it difficult? Could it get any easier? There might be other ways as well, such as the one you mentioned.
        johnisgood 5y ago
        Apparently there are more ways! You can provide your phone number so people can find your Matrix ID from their pre-existing contact phone number. Seems like it has everything a non-technical person would want.
        jeltz 5y ago
johnisgood 5y ago
There are much better alternatives. XMPP, Matrix (Element), Wire, Briar, Ricochet, whatever.
- barbazoo 5y ago
  Good luck onboarding one's grandma to any of those.
  - zaik 5y ago
    https://quicksy.im/ https://quicksy.im/ or just help her setup an account and install a client.
  - johnisgood 5y ago
    > Good luck onboarding one's grandma to any of those. Huh? Just do it. Install it, then help her if you have to, similarly to how you introduced WhatsApp (or whatever else) to her, for example. They may not like change, but if they are capable of using another piece of IM software, they are capable of using any of the mentioned ones. I installed Linux for many people who have never seen Linux their entire life. On some occasions I explained how to do something, and that was it.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - hiq 5y ago
      > Just do it. Install it, then help her if you have to, similarly to how you introduced WhatsApp I think the point is that you don't need to help her for apps like WhatsApp, they manage to figure it out because it's simple enough.
      - johnisgood 5y ago
        Element, Briar, and Wire are very simple, too. You can use the same method you did with WhatsApp, even if it was just as simple as "Download X from the Play Store, sign up, login, and tell me what username you picked".
mattl 5y ago
Except Signal is shit for groups
- chii 5y ago
  is it? I found it to be good enough for most purposes. What is shit about it?
  - beebmam 5y ago
    Agreed, works great for my groups!
  - barbazoo 5y ago
    Not op but the worst thing about groups is how you can't properly mute them. It would be fine if you could have more than 4 pinned conversations but that's oddly not a thing yet: https://community.signalusers.org/t/allow-for-more-than-4-pinned-chats/19869/25 https://community.signalusers.org/t/allow-for-more-than-4-pi...
  - mattl 5y ago
    UI
  - theshrike79 5y ago
    Moderation tools are lacking compared to, for example, Discord and Telegram. Also no bots, which is an issue for many communities.

Signal seems too good to be true. If anything is perfectly private/secure it won't be allowed to exist due to regulations or government agenda(which creates these regulations). Just like any crypto with anonymous protocols never get listed on exchanges.

neckardt 5y ago
> If anything is perfectly private/secure it won't be allowed to exist due to regulations. Why? I was under the impression that these days the NSA and other government agencies prefer perfect security since if they can crack the security then other governments could too. By forcing imperfect security the US would give up a large part of its advantage.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

Schroedingersat 5y ago

Centralized services will all suffer the same fate. XMPP was the correct answer 20 years ago, and (with an encryption layer) it's the correct answer now. Matrix and activitypub are also valid answers.

barbazoo 5y ago
I'm not sure what makes you the authority of valid answers in this topic but as someone who has tried movie their extended family to Matrix, I'd take that option with a grain of salt. It's a lot more complicated than choosing the objectively best product.
- Djejdbdbsjs123 5y ago
  I'm curious why I frequently hear that Matrix/Element are more difficult to use than Signal, Telegram, Whatsapp, etc. I set it up for my elderly parents who just got their first smartphone a few months ago, and it's been going very smoothly. What are the complications that others seem to be having?
  - barbazoo 5y ago
    The more technical people in our group tried to register accounts but we were never able to "find" or message each other. It was orders of magnitude more difficult than getting started with telegram or signal. Don't get me wrong, I do want to use Matrix, it was just not feasible at the time. I do know that it's technically the more sustainable choice.
    - Djejdbdbsjs123 5y ago
      I see. I've only added contacts in person via QR code. I guess it would be more difficult without that.
      - johnisgood 5y ago
        Yeah, you just do a single click on "+" (which says "Start chat"), and then it says on top "Start a conversation with someone using their name, email address or username (like @foobar:matrix.org).", so you just type in @username:server. Is it difficult? Could it get any easier? There might be other ways as well, such as the one you mentioned.
        johnisgood 5y ago
        Apparently there are more ways! You can provide your phone number so people can find your Matrix ID from their pre-existing contact phone number. Seems like it has everything a non-technical person would want.
      - jeltz 5y ago

johnisgood 5y ago

There are much better alternatives. XMPP, Matrix (Element), Wire, Briar, Ricochet, whatever.

barbazoo 5y ago
Good luck onboarding one's grandma to any of those.
- zaik 5y ago
  https://quicksy.im/ https://quicksy.im/ or just help her setup an account and install a client.
- johnisgood 5y ago
  > Good luck onboarding one's grandma to any of those. Huh? Just do it. Install it, then help her if you have to, similarly to how you introduced WhatsApp (or whatever else) to her, for example. They may not like change, but if they are capable of using another piece of IM software, they are capable of using any of the mentioned ones. I installed Linux for many people who have never seen Linux their entire life. On some occasions I explained how to do something, and that was it.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - hiq 5y ago
    > Just do it. Install it, then help her if you have to, similarly to how you introduced WhatsApp I think the point is that you don't need to help her for apps like WhatsApp, they manage to figure it out because it's simple enough.
    - johnisgood 5y ago
      Element, Briar, and Wire are very simple, too. You can use the same method you did with WhatsApp, even if it was just as simple as "Download X from the Play Store, sign up, login, and tell me what username you picked".

mattl 5y ago

Except Signal is shit for groups

chii 5y ago
is it? I found it to be good enough for most purposes. What is shit about it?
- beebmam 5y ago
  Agreed, works great for my groups!
- barbazoo 5y ago
  Not op but the worst thing about groups is how you can't properly mute them. It would be fine if you could have more than 4 pinned conversations but that's oddly not a thing yet: https://community.signalusers.org/t/allow-for-more-than-4-pinned-chats/19869/25 https://community.signalusers.org/t/allow-for-more-than-4-pi...
- mattl 5y ago
  UI
- theshrike79 5y ago
  Moderation tools are lacking compared to, for example, Discord and Telegram. Also no bots, which is an issue for many communities.