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Amazon is such a remarkable company. I may have underestimated their long-term prospects. I've been skeptical they would be able to maintain a monopoly for a fe

Amazon is such a remarkable company. I may have underestimated their long-term prospects. I've been skeptical they would be able to maintain a monopoly for a few decades, but even without Jeff Bezos at the helm, they got enough foresight to continue to expand their operations nonstop. Color me completely impressed.

kvathupo 5y ago
This 2019 article [1] interestingly remarks that Amazon is one of the few companies that has been able to maintain efficiency with scale. Within the context of its foray into government contracting, perhaps the US government can learn a thing or two about cutting its obscene bureaucratic bloat? As an aside, I would love to read a biography of Bezos the individual, not businessman. We all too often shrink the complex lives of humans into labels that fit 280 characters. Alas, that'll likely not happen anytime soon. (You can listen to the article thanks to the YC-backed Audm. Great content, passable app) [1] - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/11/what-jeff-bezos-wants/598363/?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/11/what-je...
- dgut 5y ago
  That assumes government wants less of itself...
  - thelittleone 5y ago
    True! There's a parallel here between government bloat and corporate bloat. In the case of corporations, failing to eliminate bloat reduces competitiveness leading to disruption. The corp may survive at least temporarily by bullying or buying disruptors, but its just delaying the inevitable.
- ezconnect 5y ago
  Government will never be efficient because the players knows there are free money to grab and efficiency is not the goal of all the decision makers involve.
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    I don't know. In the UK I can submit my taxes online, the whole thing is straightforward even including dividends and capital gains tax. It spits out the calculations for you and avoids needing an accountant. You could do it all manually but why would you when it is so efficient. There is clearly a spectrum here and blindly labelling all government as useless is wrong.
    - t0suj4 5y ago
      The parent commenter didn't refer to efficiency of tax collection. They refer to the fact that taxes is the pot the government will draw money from whenever any of their enterprises becomes unprofitable. If the pot is too small to fund all the projects they can simply grow out by taxing the populace more. When an unprofitable business in the private sector runs out of investor money it sells all its assets and eventually collapses.
      - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
        >The parent commenter didn't refer to efficiency of tax collection. Tax collection is part of government and in this case is an useful counterexample to the endless "all government is bad" messages we regularly hear on HN. >When an unprofitable business in the private sector runs out of investor money it sells all its assets and eventually collapses. Yes, and unpopular governments get voted out (assuming they are democratic).
        cloudier 5y ago
        It is easy to believe that “all government is bad” when the only government you’ve interacted with is the US government. Thanks for highlighting a counter example.
- tsol 5y ago
  Eh, most companies in the world aren't as efficient as Amazon. I know it's fashionable to complain about big government, but I think everyone can learn from Amazon. The idea that it's only the government that is inefficient is such a strange thing to me
diputsmonro 5y ago
It's easy to innovate and put in the hard work to do things efficiently when you have more money than God. Wealth begets wealth.
- weezin 5y ago
  Governments have more money than god and are horrible at efficiency.
  - djhn 5y ago
    The money is diluted (excluding dictatorships), and the end goal to optimise for is more power, not more money.
  - tsol 5y ago
    Amazon doesn't have to pay for roads or a military
  - diputsmonro 5y ago
    The efficiency of a government is determined by those who direct it, it's not inherent to the structure. The Manhatten Project, the New Deal, and the Space Race were remarkably efficient and productive, back in the time that we believed that governments can and should do things, and politicians worked together in good faith. Then corporate lobbyists bought our politicians and convinced us that governments are evil and inept, and that they shouldn't have to pay taxes because the government will just waste it. So we deregulated everything, and now billionares just waste their record profits on low orbit joyrides instead, while average Americans die preventable deaths because they can't afford healthcare (which the governments of every other developed nation manage to provide their citizens for free).
- leetcrew 5y ago
  amazon does have a lot of revenue, but it doesn't have the extreme margins that companies like google and facebook have. they can't just throw money at problems the same way. amazon has similar margins to walmart, and only just exceeded the latter's revenue in 2020. would anyone argue walmart is the more innovative company?
nimbius 5y ago
>Amazon is such a remarkable company. remarkable is such a strong word for a company that still doesnt pay taxes, violates unionization laws and forces workers to piss in plastic bottles while the CEO charters space flights.
- pengaru 5y ago
  > forces workers to piss in plastic bottles I think a large portion of the American population would be surprised how often men piss in plastic bottles, and it just goes unmentioned.
  - CircleSpokes 5y ago
    Specifically delivery drivers.
    - pengaru 5y ago
      Long-haul truckers don't strike me as likely to be stopping for #1s, especially not with the amounts of coffee they're reputed to consume.
- b9a2cab5 5y ago
  Perhaps you should remove your political colored glasses and consider things objectively. A company can be both remarkable in its achievements and have committed labor abuses. > doesn't pay taxes Yes, that's what R&D investment is. They "make" billions but reinvest all of it into growth so they pay no tax. If you somehow split off AWS and taxed its profits separately Amazon would just increase its R&D spending on AWS and go back to paying $0 in tax. This is a good policy, by the way. You want to encourage companies to make use of their money rather than returning it to shareholders. That creates more jobs and results in more technological and economic growth.
  - barbazoo 5y ago
    Let's not forget that they also use(d) actual tax avoidance schemes via Ireland, Luxembourg, etc. It's not just that they invested all their money back into their business.
tenpies 5y ago
> even without Jeff Bezos It's honestly because of Jeff Bezos that Amazon can succeed without Jeff Bezos. People honestly do not give Bezos enough credit, not just for what Amazon has achieved, but for what he has achieved within Amazon. Decades from now there will be case studies about the succession planning at Amazon versus other "major" companies of our time which oftentimes revolve around the ego and narcissism of a CEO with too much self-importance to foster any sort of succession within the organization. Amazon's best years are quite likely still not behind us and will quite likely happen when Bezos is no longer around to see them.
- ergocoder 5y ago
  I was at Google. The ability to look long term at Amazon is just fucking amazing. Google will never ever have that kind of competence.
- scollet 5y ago
  Yeah! Root for the villains! Yeah! Suffering is cool again!
  - Henk0815 5y ago
    A villain can still be a competent villain
- overtonwhy 5y ago
  Bezos made a better web interface for a Walmart level selection of goods and now Walmart is caught up and it's all the same. Shopping at Amazon is ethically the same as shopping at Walmart (not good IMO).
  - fault1 5y ago
    Yeah, but ecommerce is just one of amazon's (many) businesses.
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago
scollet 5y ago
Did you get the promotion?

kvathupo 5y ago

This 2019 article [1] interestingly remarks that Amazon is one of the few companies that has been able to maintain efficiency with scale. Within the context of its foray into government contracting, perhaps the US government can learn a thing or two about cutting its obscene bureaucratic bloat? As an aside, I would love to read a biography of Bezos the individual, not businessman. We all too often shrink the complex lives of humans into labels that fit 280 characters. Alas, that'll likely not happen anytime soon. (You can listen to the article thanks to the YC-backed Audm. Great content, passable app) [1] - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/11/what-jeff-bezos-wants/598363/?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/11/what-je...

dgut 5y ago
That assumes government wants less of itself...
- thelittleone 5y ago
  True! There's a parallel here between government bloat and corporate bloat. In the case of corporations, failing to eliminate bloat reduces competitiveness leading to disruption. The corp may survive at least temporarily by bullying or buying disruptors, but its just delaying the inevitable.
ezconnect 5y ago
Government will never be efficient because the players knows there are free money to grab and efficiency is not the goal of all the decision makers involve.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  I don't know. In the UK I can submit my taxes online, the whole thing is straightforward even including dividends and capital gains tax. It spits out the calculations for you and avoids needing an accountant. You could do it all manually but why would you when it is so efficient. There is clearly a spectrum here and blindly labelling all government as useless is wrong.
  - t0suj4 5y ago
    The parent commenter didn't refer to efficiency of tax collection. They refer to the fact that taxes is the pot the government will draw money from whenever any of their enterprises becomes unprofitable. If the pot is too small to fund all the projects they can simply grow out by taxing the populace more. When an unprofitable business in the private sector runs out of investor money it sells all its assets and eventually collapses.
    - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
      >The parent commenter didn't refer to efficiency of tax collection. Tax collection is part of government and in this case is an useful counterexample to the endless "all government is bad" messages we regularly hear on HN. >When an unprofitable business in the private sector runs out of investor money it sells all its assets and eventually collapses. Yes, and unpopular governments get voted out (assuming they are democratic).
      - cloudier 5y ago
        It is easy to believe that “all government is bad” when the only government you’ve interacted with is the US government. Thanks for highlighting a counter example.
tsol 5y ago
Eh, most companies in the world aren't as efficient as Amazon. I know it's fashionable to complain about big government, but I think everyone can learn from Amazon. The idea that it's only the government that is inefficient is such a strange thing to me

diputsmonro 5y ago

It's easy to innovate and put in the hard work to do things efficiently when you have more money than God. Wealth begets wealth.

weezin 5y ago
Governments have more money than god and are horrible at efficiency.
- djhn 5y ago
  The money is diluted (excluding dictatorships), and the end goal to optimise for is more power, not more money.
- tsol 5y ago
  Amazon doesn't have to pay for roads or a military
- diputsmonro 5y ago
  The efficiency of a government is determined by those who direct it, it's not inherent to the structure. The Manhatten Project, the New Deal, and the Space Race were remarkably efficient and productive, back in the time that we believed that governments can and should do things, and politicians worked together in good faith. Then corporate lobbyists bought our politicians and convinced us that governments are evil and inept, and that they shouldn't have to pay taxes because the government will just waste it. So we deregulated everything, and now billionares just waste their record profits on low orbit joyrides instead, while average Americans die preventable deaths because they can't afford healthcare (which the governments of every other developed nation manage to provide their citizens for free).
leetcrew 5y ago
amazon does have a lot of revenue, but it doesn't have the extreme margins that companies like google and facebook have. they can't just throw money at problems the same way. amazon has similar margins to walmart, and only just exceeded the latter's revenue in 2020. would anyone argue walmart is the more innovative company?

nimbius 5y ago

>Amazon is such a remarkable company. remarkable is such a strong word for a company that still doesnt pay taxes, violates unionization laws and forces workers to piss in plastic bottles while the CEO charters space flights.

pengaru 5y ago
> forces workers to piss in plastic bottles I think a large portion of the American population would be surprised how often men piss in plastic bottles, and it just goes unmentioned.
- CircleSpokes 5y ago
  Specifically delivery drivers.
  - pengaru 5y ago
    Long-haul truckers don't strike me as likely to be stopping for #1s, especially not with the amounts of coffee they're reputed to consume.
b9a2cab5 5y ago
Perhaps you should remove your political colored glasses and consider things objectively. A company can be both remarkable in its achievements and have committed labor abuses. > doesn't pay taxes Yes, that's what R&D investment is. They "make" billions but reinvest all of it into growth so they pay no tax. If you somehow split off AWS and taxed its profits separately Amazon would just increase its R&D spending on AWS and go back to paying $0 in tax. This is a good policy, by the way. You want to encourage companies to make use of their money rather than returning it to shareholders. That creates more jobs and results in more technological and economic growth.
- barbazoo 5y ago
  Let's not forget that they also use(d) actual tax avoidance schemes via Ireland, Luxembourg, etc. It's not just that they invested all their money back into their business.

tenpies 5y ago

> even without Jeff Bezos It's honestly because of Jeff Bezos that Amazon can succeed without Jeff Bezos. People honestly do not give Bezos enough credit, not just for what Amazon has achieved, but for what he has achieved within Amazon. Decades from now there will be case studies about the succession planning at Amazon versus other "major" companies of our time which oftentimes revolve around the ego and narcissism of a CEO with too much self-importance to foster any sort of succession within the organization. Amazon's best years are quite likely still not behind us and will quite likely happen when Bezos is no longer around to see them.

ergocoder 5y ago
I was at Google. The ability to look long term at Amazon is just fucking amazing. Google will never ever have that kind of competence.
scollet 5y ago
Yeah! Root for the villains! Yeah! Suffering is cool again!
- Henk0815 5y ago
  A villain can still be a competent villain
overtonwhy 5y ago
Bezos made a better web interface for a Walmart level selection of goods and now Walmart is caught up and it's all the same. Shopping at Amazon is ethically the same as shopping at Walmart (not good IMO).
- fault1 5y ago
  Yeah, but ecommerce is just one of amazon's (many) businesses.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago

scollet 5y ago

Did you get the promotion?