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From the FAQs: > Does this Work for My Mac M1 or M2? > No one has reported trying to run this on a Mac M1 or M2 yet but since these run ARM we don't feel that

by tailspin2019 5y ago

From the FAQs: > Does this Work for My Mac M1 or M2? > No one has reported trying to run this on a Mac M1 or M2 yet but since these run ARM we don't feel that it is a good laptop to be using if you are deploying to X86 servers. At best you will experience slowness as the machines will need to emulate a different architecture. This isn't something we expect software updates to fix and both Docker and VMWare state the same thing. Even if you wish to deploy to ARM servers we don't feel that the M1s and M2s are going to be helpful as they are very different from most commodity ARM servers. Erm... they're not Mac people then... EDIT: I was probably being a bit grumpy - read the full replies below for further context...

amelius 5y ago
Is that a bad thing?
- tailspin2019 5y ago
  I probably should have clarified: There's no such thing as a "Mac M2" for a start. (Yet) But I also found this paragraph a bit odd, because the machines I use locally never match the architecture of what I'm deploying to. In fact (in my view) it's largely irrelevant. I develop on Macs and deploy to Linux and Windows servers, with a mixture of ARM/Intel. I don't quite understand this sentiment. Not to mention the fact that they start off by saying that no one has even tried it yet (presumably to run Nanos in a VM on an M1 Mac). It just seems a bit uninformed and unnecessarily opinionated. As a Mac user it puts me off digging much deeper into the project. Maybe that's the wrong takeaway, but that was my first reaction.
eyberg 5y ago
We use macs. :) I'm typing on one right now. There are 2 large problems with macs for shipping to x86 servers in the cloud (our main target): * Different file format: elf vs mach-o - this is why many devs that use mac rely on things like docker or vagrant. * x86 vs arm: We do support ARM to a degree right now but the vast majority of our end users are deploying to x86 vms. The problem here of course is that ops produces machine images that are ran on a hypervisor so this works great on an x86 mac (for dev/test) but is very slow on apple silicon cause of the translation involved. Looks like one of our users has been playing around with it though so YMMV: https://github.com/imarsman/dockerops https://github.com/imarsman/dockerops
- tailspin2019 5y ago
  > I'm typing on one right now Is it a Mac M2? :-) > The problem here of course is that ops produces machine images that are ran on a hypervisor so this works great on an x86 mac (for dev/test) but is very slow on apple silicon cause of the translation involved But presumably most people will be doing this step in a CI system for deploying to production right? I certainly don't build anything locally on my Mac that I then deploy to a production server. Nor do I expect anything I do build and run locally to run like it will on my production servers (in terms of performance). I get that it might not be an _optimal_ experience to develop on an M1 but the wording of your FAQ is a little offputting as it currently stands - given that it advises that ARM Macs are likely not suitable, but says that no one has actually tried yet... while simultaneously referring to a Mac chip (M2) that doesn't exist :-) The website and project look great. I'm just giving you my honest first impressions!
  - eyberg 5y ago
    Nope. Appreciate the feedback. The community site could definitely use massive amounts of documentation and it hasn't been updated recently either. I'd agree anyone that is actually taking something to prod will be using a ci/cd server of some kind, but in terms of just monkeying around or using as a dev laptop the M1s don't have the same ergonomics. We're not against M1s at all. If enough people want that support it can be added - whether it is native ARM builds or binary translated X86 - it is mostly just a word of warning on expectations.
    - tailspin2019 5y ago
      Ok cool, thanks for engaging and clarifying. You've undone my first impressions :-) I may take a closer look!

amelius 5y ago

Is that a bad thing?

tailspin2019 5y ago
I probably should have clarified: There's no such thing as a "Mac M2" for a start. (Yet) But I also found this paragraph a bit odd, because the machines I use locally never match the architecture of what I'm deploying to. In fact (in my view) it's largely irrelevant. I develop on Macs and deploy to Linux and Windows servers, with a mixture of ARM/Intel. I don't quite understand this sentiment. Not to mention the fact that they start off by saying that no one has even tried it yet (presumably to run Nanos in a VM on an M1 Mac). It just seems a bit uninformed and unnecessarily opinionated. As a Mac user it puts me off digging much deeper into the project. Maybe that's the wrong takeaway, but that was my first reaction.

eyberg 5y ago

We use macs. :) I'm typing on one right now. There are 2 large problems with macs for shipping to x86 servers in the cloud (our main target): * Different file format: elf vs mach-o - this is why many devs that use mac rely on things like docker or vagrant. * x86 vs arm: We do support ARM to a degree right now but the vast majority of our end users are deploying to x86 vms. The problem here of course is that ops produces machine images that are ran on a hypervisor so this works great on an x86 mac (for dev/test) but is very slow on apple silicon cause of the translation involved. Looks like one of our users has been playing around with it though so YMMV: https://github.com/imarsman/dockerops https://github.com/imarsman/dockerops

tailspin2019 5y ago
> I'm typing on one right now Is it a Mac M2? :-) > The problem here of course is that ops produces machine images that are ran on a hypervisor so this works great on an x86 mac (for dev/test) but is very slow on apple silicon cause of the translation involved But presumably most people will be doing this step in a CI system for deploying to production right? I certainly don't build anything locally on my Mac that I then deploy to a production server. Nor do I expect anything I do build and run locally to run like it will on my production servers (in terms of performance). I get that it might not be an _optimal_ experience to develop on an M1 but the wording of your FAQ is a little offputting as it currently stands - given that it advises that ARM Macs are likely not suitable, but says that no one has actually tried yet... while simultaneously referring to a Mac chip (M2) that doesn't exist :-) The website and project look great. I'm just giving you my honest first impressions!
- eyberg 5y ago
  Nope. Appreciate the feedback. The community site could definitely use massive amounts of documentation and it hasn't been updated recently either. I'd agree anyone that is actually taking something to prod will be using a ci/cd server of some kind, but in terms of just monkeying around or using as a dev laptop the M1s don't have the same ergonomics. We're not against M1s at all. If enough people want that support it can be added - whether it is native ARM builds or binary translated X86 - it is mostly just a word of warning on expectations.
  - tailspin2019 5y ago
    Ok cool, thanks for engaging and clarifying. You've undone my first impressions :-) I may take a closer look!