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>With a technology that is extremely damaging to the entire planet for no reason You mean energy production? Do you apply the same standards to threads about

>With a technology that is extremely damaging to the entire planet for no reason You mean energy production? Do you apply the same standards to threads about personal vehicles? Or for that matter, energy consuming/producing technology in general like, you know, computers?

camgunz 5y ago
You missed where I wrote "for no reason". I'm happy to talk about energy efficiency in the micro (dishwashers) or the macro (shipping), but we have to first agree that crypto has no legitimate use cases and is just waste, so we can dispense with this whataboutism that's currently in vogue in crypto threads.
- pennaMan 5y ago
  We would then first need to define what "real reason" means
  - camgunz 5y ago
    An investment (i.e. a security or a commodity) or whatever you would use a real currency for, outside of crime. The argument I get back most for this is "how do people pay for porn", but I'm pretty sure people are paying for porn as we're furiously typing at each other this very moment, so it seems like a non-issue.
    - pennaMan 5y ago
      What is a real currency? Is USD real? If so, why? The mining of the USD is oil extraction, especially in war-torn or human rights abusing countries. Why aren't we talking how the US economy is based on extracting and selling and speculating the very thing burning our planet? Not even counting the numerous wars it created. I don't think the BTC hash function has a hard requirement on using energy from fossil fuels, does it?
      - LargeWu 5y ago
        It doesn't have a hard requirement on fossil fuels, no. But if Bitcoin is using clean energy, that means it's using clean energy that could otherwise be used for things that provide actual utility - lighting homes, running businesses, charging electric vehicles, etc. Fiat currencies are real because we all agree that they're real. You can pay your taxes with them, you can buy a house or your groceries. I don't think Bitcoin, or other crypto, can yet claim they're real because their worth is expressed almost exclusively in terms of fiat currency. Even if some business does accept crypto, it's expressed as a conversion from an underlying price in terms of fiat.
      - camgunz 5y ago
        > Why aren't we talking how the US economy is based on extracting and selling and speculating the very thing burning our planet? Because it's yet more whataboutism? We can debate how we should transition to renewables and what we really need energy for, but I think we agree we need it? > I don't think the BTC hash function has a hard requirement on using energy from fossil fuels, does it? I'd love it if the crypto community kicked out fossil fuel miners. That'll obviously never happen. But again I ask you, what's the point of cryptocurrency other than crime?
        pennaMan 5y ago
        What is the point of fiat money other than greed? And we are talking about currencies and the utility of said currencies. About the governing structures and operating costs of those currencies. Looking at USD, a well accepted traditional currency with the backing of the territorial violence monopoly we so kindly call sovereign nations, is certainly a reasonable argument as we are essentially comparing green apples to red apples. So what does the traditional economy system gives us? War, global unrest, dependency on fossil fuel extraction. Choosing to have a personal war with a system that proposes to do away with the violence monopoly because it requires a nuclear power plant or two of power to operate is an odd position.
        dmitriid 5y ago
        > So what does the traditional economy system gives us? War, global unrest, dependency on fossil fuel extraction. It also gives you roads, education, safe travel, global commerce, global communication,... All blockchains and crypto coins do are doing is spending several countries worth of energy expenditure on scams. > proposes to do away with the violence monopoly Next time you buy anything physical with crypto and it doesn't arrive, you'll be the first in line to demand monopoly on violence.

camgunz 5y ago

You missed where I wrote "for no reason". I'm happy to talk about energy efficiency in the micro (dishwashers) or the macro (shipping), but we have to first agree that crypto has no legitimate use cases and is just waste, so we can dispense with this whataboutism that's currently in vogue in crypto threads.

pennaMan 5y ago
We would then first need to define what "real reason" means
- camgunz 5y ago
  An investment (i.e. a security or a commodity) or whatever you would use a real currency for, outside of crime. The argument I get back most for this is "how do people pay for porn", but I'm pretty sure people are paying for porn as we're furiously typing at each other this very moment, so it seems like a non-issue.
  - pennaMan 5y ago
    What is a real currency? Is USD real? If so, why? The mining of the USD is oil extraction, especially in war-torn or human rights abusing countries. Why aren't we talking how the US economy is based on extracting and selling and speculating the very thing burning our planet? Not even counting the numerous wars it created. I don't think the BTC hash function has a hard requirement on using energy from fossil fuels, does it?
    - LargeWu 5y ago
      It doesn't have a hard requirement on fossil fuels, no. But if Bitcoin is using clean energy, that means it's using clean energy that could otherwise be used for things that provide actual utility - lighting homes, running businesses, charging electric vehicles, etc. Fiat currencies are real because we all agree that they're real. You can pay your taxes with them, you can buy a house or your groceries. I don't think Bitcoin, or other crypto, can yet claim they're real because their worth is expressed almost exclusively in terms of fiat currency. Even if some business does accept crypto, it's expressed as a conversion from an underlying price in terms of fiat.
    - camgunz 5y ago
      > Why aren't we talking how the US economy is based on extracting and selling and speculating the very thing burning our planet? Because it's yet more whataboutism? We can debate how we should transition to renewables and what we really need energy for, but I think we agree we need it? > I don't think the BTC hash function has a hard requirement on using energy from fossil fuels, does it? I'd love it if the crypto community kicked out fossil fuel miners. That'll obviously never happen. But again I ask you, what's the point of cryptocurrency other than crime?
      - pennaMan 5y ago
        What is the point of fiat money other than greed? And we are talking about currencies and the utility of said currencies. About the governing structures and operating costs of those currencies. Looking at USD, a well accepted traditional currency with the backing of the territorial violence monopoly we so kindly call sovereign nations, is certainly a reasonable argument as we are essentially comparing green apples to red apples. So what does the traditional economy system gives us? War, global unrest, dependency on fossil fuel extraction. Choosing to have a personal war with a system that proposes to do away with the violence monopoly because it requires a nuclear power plant or two of power to operate is an odd position.
        dmitriid 5y ago
        > So what does the traditional economy system gives us? War, global unrest, dependency on fossil fuel extraction. It also gives you roads, education, safe travel, global commerce, global communication,... All blockchains and crypto coins do are doing is spending several countries worth of energy expenditure on scams. > proposes to do away with the violence monopoly Next time you buy anything physical with crypto and it doesn't arrive, you'll be the first in line to demand monopoly on violence.