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>Personally I'd like anyone perusing a cryptocurrency thread here to come away with the opinion that it's junk tech that roasts the planet, both because it's tr

by Tenoke 5y ago

>Personally I'd like anyone perusing a cryptocurrency thread here to come away with the opinion that it's junk tech that roasts the planet, both because it's true and because climate change is a very serious problem. If you read these threads you must know this isn't a universal for cryptocurrencies as it does not apply to multiple of the biggest projects. Even Ethereum which this post is about is scheduled to move away from PoW next quarter though their timeline claims are to be taken with some salt. Comparing a discussion on a programming language to eugenics and phrenology just shows you have a bone to pick rather than trying to be helpful.

camgunz 5y ago
Ethereum has always been PoW and the only thing that separates it from Bitcoin in this regard is its relative unpopularity. Further its switch to PoS has some big implications. For example: I can run an Ether node right now with very little money. This strengthens and diversifies the network. PoS shrinks the participant pool dramatically, effectively making it a centralized protocol that only the rich are allowed to participate in (or put another way, $100k is a hell of an initial investment for 99.99999% of people alive). I was intentional in lumping crypto in with eugenics and phrenology, because they're all bad ideas that are super harmful for humanity. That's how bad climate change is! But more broadly, this is just another example of a crypto person crying ignorance or ad hominem rather than having any cogent arguments or new information. The tech isn't that hard to understand. We get it. It is actually just bad.
- Tenoke 5y ago
  You are jumping between claims. As you've acknowledged Ethereum will switch to PoS where your climate change claims are incorrect (as they already are when talking about crypto as a whole). Your seperate PoS concerns of centralization (whether valid or not) at most make it as 'evil' as any other centralized service.
  - camgunz 5y ago
    1. I'm not acknowledging anything. I think the switch happening is very up in the air, and the switch happening without irreparably destroying the community is also very up in the air. I think ETH devs agree, which is why it's been postponed so much. 2. If it's just as bad as what we have now, seems like a lot of effort for no reason right?
  - nkrisc 5y ago
    > You are jumping between claims. As you've acknowledged Ethereum will switch to PoS where your climate change claims are incorrect (as they already are when talking about crypto as a whole). I don't think you should give them too much credit for a switch to PoS that hasn't actually happened yet. There's no intermediate benefit of "planning to switch."
    - rglullis 5y ago
      I gather you never run a blue-green migration before? The switch has already started. The PoS validators are already running. The time it is taking is just to make sure that the transition occurs safely and that there are enough diversity of clients and stakers in the network.
- X6S1x6Okd1st 5y ago
  There's a lot to address, but after PoS transitions you can still run a run node without 32 eth, it just won't play a role in finalization or production of a block. As an aside: do you run a node?
  - camgunz 5y ago
    The only things that are relevant here are mining and verification. PoS replaces mining, but you still need stake to verify. > As an aside: do you run a node? Hah is this some reference to PoW miners coming out swinging against PoS to protect their mining infrastructure investments? 1. Of course not 2. This is a great demonstration of how centralized these "decentralized" networks are; people are even worried about the PoW miner lobby.
- jallen_dot_dev 5y ago
  You can run a node without being a validator. It's the same as today with PoW, you can run a node without being a miner. Mining also requires a large investment in specialized equipment and energy if you have any hope of finding a block.
  - camgunz 5y ago
    > You can run a node without being a validator. Yeah but we're only talking about validations and mining. PoS gets rid of mining, but it's still the case that Ethereum is a very expensive distributed consensus system based on validation nodes. And again, for what reason?

by Tenoke 5y ago

camgunz 5y ago

Ethereum has always been PoW and the only thing that separates it from Bitcoin in this regard is its relative unpopularity. Further its switch to PoS has some big implications. For example: I can run an Ether node right now with very little money. This strengthens and diversifies the network. PoS shrinks the participant pool dramatically, effectively making it a centralized protocol that only the rich are allowed to participate in (or put another way, $100k is a hell of an initial investment for 99.99999% of people alive). I was intentional in lumping crypto in with eugenics and phrenology, because they're all bad ideas that are super harmful for humanity. That's how bad climate change is! But more broadly, this is just another example of a crypto person crying ignorance or ad hominem rather than having any cogent arguments or new information. The tech isn't that hard to understand. We get it. It is actually just bad.

Tenoke 5y ago
You are jumping between claims. As you've acknowledged Ethereum will switch to PoS where your climate change claims are incorrect (as they already are when talking about crypto as a whole). Your seperate PoS concerns of centralization (whether valid or not) at most make it as 'evil' as any other centralized service.
- camgunz 5y ago
  1. I'm not acknowledging anything. I think the switch happening is very up in the air, and the switch happening without irreparably destroying the community is also very up in the air. I think ETH devs agree, which is why it's been postponed so much. 2. If it's just as bad as what we have now, seems like a lot of effort for no reason right?
- nkrisc 5y ago
  > You are jumping between claims. As you've acknowledged Ethereum will switch to PoS where your climate change claims are incorrect (as they already are when talking about crypto as a whole). I don't think you should give them too much credit for a switch to PoS that hasn't actually happened yet. There's no intermediate benefit of "planning to switch."
  - rglullis 5y ago
    I gather you never run a blue-green migration before? The switch has already started. The PoS validators are already running. The time it is taking is just to make sure that the transition occurs safely and that there are enough diversity of clients and stakers in the network.
X6S1x6Okd1st 5y ago
There's a lot to address, but after PoS transitions you can still run a run node without 32 eth, it just won't play a role in finalization or production of a block. As an aside: do you run a node?
- camgunz 5y ago
  The only things that are relevant here are mining and verification. PoS replaces mining, but you still need stake to verify. > As an aside: do you run a node? Hah is this some reference to PoW miners coming out swinging against PoS to protect their mining infrastructure investments? 1. Of course not 2. This is a great demonstration of how centralized these "decentralized" networks are; people are even worried about the PoW miner lobby.
jallen_dot_dev 5y ago
You can run a node without being a validator. It's the same as today with PoW, you can run a node without being a miner. Mining also requires a large investment in specialized equipment and energy if you have any hope of finding a block.
- camgunz 5y ago
  > You can run a node without being a validator. Yeah but we're only talking about validations and mining. PoS gets rid of mining, but it's still the case that Ethereum is a very expensive distributed consensus system based on validation nodes. And again, for what reason?