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Why would one to have a generator in your own backyard? Is there no power grid available? As for outages, wouldn't a UPS be sufficient? Being Dutch, this does

Why would one to have a generator in your own backyard? Is there no power grid available? As for outages, wouldn't a UPS be sufficient? Being Dutch, this does sound a bit like overkill. Most times I see an electric generator like this in the Netherlands is at festivals, or on the national news where a remote 100% renewable museum couldn't get hooked up to the nation power grid due to lack of capacity, and had be powered by diesel generators.

lhoff 5y ago
OP lives I an area with an unreliable power grid - Texas
- erichocean 5y ago
  I live in an area with an unreliable power grid — California. My friend lives nearby and has a whole house generator. Uses it 2-5 times per year. It's funny at night when he's the only guy in the neighborhood with his lights on. Runs on natural gas.
- markvdb 5y ago
  Cool to have a residential backup electric power generator. The monitoring system also looks interesting. I wonder if the author could shed some light on the reasons for this technical choice though, because my back-of-the-envelope calculations just don't end up with this kind of tech. The Generac is about $13000 excluding install. A Tesla Powerwall+ $11500 installed without subsidies. The electric power consumption at our place is under 5.5 kWh per day on average, with very few peaks. Slightly less than average for Belgium, but not by a lot. I realise residential power consumption may be higher in the US, but probably not by an order of magnitude. A popular home battery, the Tesla Powerwall does 13.5 kWh. That's 2.5 days already without any solar. Add enough solar and you've got basicly unlimited backup. In a single family home with a garage, one can also easily add vehicle to grid for extra emergency storage. Friendlier to the environment, lower maintenance, cheaper. Unless one consumes over 7 kW continuous or 10 kW peak in an emergency situation.
  - msandford 5y ago
    > The electric power consumption at our place is under 5.5 kWh per day on average, with very few peaks. That's why your back-of-the-envelope doesn't necessarily add up with the author's. In the US South (at least where people run AC) it's entirely possible to use 24 to 48 kWh per day. There are big, fancy houses people own that could double, triple or quadruple that. http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/average-household-electricity-consumption http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/average-household-electricity...
  - fjfjfdkdkd 5y ago
    >the Tesla Powerwall does 13.5 kWh One liter of diesel, costing a few of your local currency, stores 10kwh. >Add enough solar At enormous cost >my back-of-the-envelope calculations just don't end up with this kind of tech. That's because you have erroneously conflated several different variables. A diesel generator is by far the cheapest way to generate that much power.
    - ComputerGuru 5y ago
      I was with you up until here: > A diesel generator is by far the cheapest way to generate that much power. Natural Gas generators (like the OP’s) are much cheaper.
  - bob1029 5y ago
    If this is a Texas install, then the house could be running upwards of 5 tons of HVAC capacity. This is a monster load that is very unusual outside of southern US states. Getting through a hurricane is a lot easier when you can pull humidity out of your house the whole time. Running this much cooling on 1 powerwall would take you about 4 hours before you are in the same boat as everyone else. In many cases you need to go 72+ hours non stop. Gulf coast does not cool down that much at night after a cat5 blows through. It's practically unsurvivable in some cases.
  - monstermunch 5y ago
    Author here. It was $20K installed total I also have 17kw of solar on my roof, and overproduce. I have 1:1 net metering, so a battery will not help financially unless that ends. the only utility a battery provides is backup power In the middle of summer I will use around 80kwh a day with lots of AC usage (Yes, I could get more insulation, better ducts, switch to minisplits. all in progress) A lot of that is at night, because it doesn't get any cooler at night really. It still stays hot and humid. Between sun I'm using around 30kwh, so I'd need 3 x Tesla Power Walls JUST TO MAKE THE NIGHT and hope it was sunny the day before to fully charge, and sunny the next day The cost for that is over $30,000, only makes the night, and still only outputs around the same as the generator. If it's not sunny but it's still warm, I'll be without power in a short time. If I'm spending that amount of money, I want power to stay on no matter what I'm waiting for Enhpase or Tesla, or someone to come out with an AC Coupled grid tie battery that has full generator support. That is the dream. Then in low solar days it could pre-charge the battery with the generator for night time. I don't want to drop a ton of cash now, when that is surely on the horizon. Either that, or the ability to use a car as a battery. If I could use a Tesla as a battery, I would probably go buy a 100 model Tesla. That would be 100kwh! much better
Scoundreller 5y ago
Probably an area with poor electricity infrastructure or in hurricane alley. Though 27kw is a lot. They’re on natural gas too, so I guess they’re not worried about running out of diesel (though nat gas can be another point of failure)
- jondiggsit 5y ago
  Overhead electrical lines, susceptible to outages during storms (trees). Available NG or LP. Makes sense to have a generator backup. 27kw is decent size depending on size of house. Re: the article - does the setup give more functionality to the smart transfer switch capabilities?
- quickthrowman 5y ago
  27kW is 225A, it’s what you want for fully backing up a 200A utility service, which is what all new construction has in my area, tho some older homes still have 100A services.
  - spockz 5y ago
    Interesting, most residential homes in The Netherlands do go beyond 40A for 1 phase and 35A for a 3 phase setup. Granted. We don’t regularly run airconditioning either and most heating is on NG, but still…
  - monstermunch 5y ago
    27kw is actually 115A
    - quickthrowman 5y ago
      You are correct, my bad! https://www.generac.com/generaccorporate/media/library/content/all-products/generators/resi-comm/protector/0l0036sby.pdf https://www.generac.com/generaccorporate/media/library/conte...
pjc50 5y ago
Friend of mine had a six day outage in the Scottish borders just now. Starting to look more reasonable to have some sort of backup, although 27kW could run an entire neighbourhood.
0x0000000 5y ago
I wouldn't say they're common, but I see plenty of at-home generators (Generac is popular, there are others) here in the Northeast USA. We have lots of old trees, and lots of snow, which maybe you share, but I guess it's our propensity to ignore infrastructure maintenance that leads to more, longer power outages. In the last ~12 months, I've thrice lost power for more than four hours. Once you start losing a fridge's worth of groceries every 4 months, amongst the other challenges with power outages, the at-home generators start to look attractive.
- FractalParadigm 5y ago
  It also helps that, at least here in Ontario (Canada), diesel is a very popular substitute to run in conventional oil-burning furnaces - having a generator is almost a no-brainer when you've already got tons of fresh fuel on hand. On the other hand, 27kW is a LOT of generating capacity for one home. I consider that the average home (at least in my area) only has 200A service, and I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain that it's not enough (outside my dad who wanted a 16-person hot tub for two people).
  - quickthrowman 5y ago
    > On the other hand, 27kW is a LOT of generating capacity for one home. I consider that the average home (at least in my area) only has 200A service Uh, a 27kW generator is 225A at 120v, it’s the model you use if you want whole-house backup generator for a 200A service…
    - dkdk8283 5y ago
      That’s not how you calculate amps. We don’t know if it’s single or three phase. It’s 113 amps @ 240v single phase.
      - quickthrowman 5y ago
        You are correct, my bad. It’s 120/240 single phase, so 113 amps. https://www.generac.com/generaccorporate/media/library/content/all-products/generators/resi-comm/protector/0l0036sby.pdf https://www.generac.com/generaccorporate/media/library/conte...
dkdk8283 5y ago
I have a 22kw diesel and 500 gallons of fuel on site. During a disaster you can lose power for 2 weeks. It’s not overkill, it’s required in some areas.
beAbU 5y ago
In South Africa we have load shedding, where the power utility switches off large parts of the grid in an attempt to retain grid stability. Aging infrastructure, incompetence and corruption means that we've been suffering like this for almost 15 years now. During active loadshedding we can expect multiple 2-4 hour outages during the day. UPSes dont work because the batteries are destroyed after a couple of sessions. Proper battery based backup solutions are prohibitively expensive for most. Most upper middle class households have backup generators installed, usually 4-7kW. If you can afford it, you install a full solar power system, allowing you to disconnect completely from the grid. We don't have gas, oil furnaces or other sources of power (other than solar for the wealthy as explained above), and for most our hot water is made with electricity. The unreliable grid has become a fact of life for all south africans, and we have adapted according to our means, all the way from a fully independent off grid solar soltion for the rich, down to candles for the poorest of poor. I keep candles in my cupboard in case my backup system fails.
dylan604 5y ago
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Texas+February+2021+power+outage&t=h_&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Texas+February+2021+power+outage&t... Must not read the news much, but there are all sorts of things that cause people to be without power especially weather related. However, since you're claiming that the Dutch never loose power for more than minutes at a time, perhaps we all should consider relocating.
hourislate 5y ago
Because in America we can have everything. There is no limit to comfort and quality of life. Our standard of living can be quite high and very affordable. This setup was only 20k installed, a pittance. While this setup is robust, it is not unusual for people to have 10 -15 kw NatGas generators as backup just in case there is an unforeseen interruption to their power (some kind of accident or calamity). It's why America is a wonderful place to live, you can have everything, what you see and hear in the media about how awful it is here is fake news. -Canadian expat.
bbatchelder 5y ago
I live in a rural part of Florida, and we have experienced outages as long as 2.5 weeks. I went with the 26kw air-cooled model, and getting that installed along with a 1,000gal propane tank (and 800 gal of propane) was done for $18k. Our biggest load is HVAC, to run two AC units (5 ton and 3 ton). During an extended outage, we'd shut down half the house.
comeonseriously 5y ago
I'm in Florida. We get storms, tropical or otherwise, that will take out the power anywhere from hours to days during the summer. Our (my neighborhood) lines our buried, but the feed is still above ground. A lot of people here have generators for running essentials.
bruprup 5y ago
Why would the Netherlands have power outages? Being dutch you won't have CH4 shortages this winter (unlike what the EU might face). You'll supply your own industry, power stations and homes first and then your gas clients. You also only have one real natural disaster to optimize for, flooding. Europe has incredibly mild weather compared to the rest of the world. Add to that that your infrastructure is newer than N. Americas - it all got rebuilt after WW2. The supply cables into my old house were 100 years old. Finally, there is heating. Most homes need some form of an electrical motor for their heat (either as a blower for the furnace or a pump for their radiators). Consider how lucky Europe is climatically: the Netherlands is 52N. By comparison, Toronto is at the same latitude as Nice - this is due to the Gulf currents. Pipes in the Netherlands will not freeze if you spend a few days without heat. The pipes in the homes in the upper half of continental US will burst after a few days without heat. Finally, generators are not particularly bad for CO2 emissions or other pollution compared to the grid. Not when you consider their low usage. We can afford them, they address real problems, they're fairly benign, so why not? EDIT: clarity

lhoff 5y ago

OP lives I an area with an unreliable power grid - Texas

erichocean 5y ago
I live in an area with an unreliable power grid — California. My friend lives nearby and has a whole house generator. Uses it 2-5 times per year. It's funny at night when he's the only guy in the neighborhood with his lights on. Runs on natural gas.
markvdb 5y ago
Cool to have a residential backup electric power generator. The monitoring system also looks interesting. I wonder if the author could shed some light on the reasons for this technical choice though, because my back-of-the-envelope calculations just don't end up with this kind of tech. The Generac is about $13000 excluding install. A Tesla Powerwall+ $11500 installed without subsidies. The electric power consumption at our place is under 5.5 kWh per day on average, with very few peaks. Slightly less than average for Belgium, but not by a lot. I realise residential power consumption may be higher in the US, but probably not by an order of magnitude. A popular home battery, the Tesla Powerwall does 13.5 kWh. That's 2.5 days already without any solar. Add enough solar and you've got basicly unlimited backup. In a single family home with a garage, one can also easily add vehicle to grid for extra emergency storage. Friendlier to the environment, lower maintenance, cheaper. Unless one consumes over 7 kW continuous or 10 kW peak in an emergency situation.
- msandford 5y ago
  > The electric power consumption at our place is under 5.5 kWh per day on average, with very few peaks. That's why your back-of-the-envelope doesn't necessarily add up with the author's. In the US South (at least where people run AC) it's entirely possible to use 24 to 48 kWh per day. There are big, fancy houses people own that could double, triple or quadruple that. http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/average-household-electricity-consumption http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/average-household-electricity...
- fjfjfdkdkd 5y ago
  >the Tesla Powerwall does 13.5 kWh One liter of diesel, costing a few of your local currency, stores 10kwh. >Add enough solar At enormous cost >my back-of-the-envelope calculations just don't end up with this kind of tech. That's because you have erroneously conflated several different variables. A diesel generator is by far the cheapest way to generate that much power.
  - ComputerGuru 5y ago
    I was with you up until here: > A diesel generator is by far the cheapest way to generate that much power. Natural Gas generators (like the OP’s) are much cheaper.
- bob1029 5y ago
  If this is a Texas install, then the house could be running upwards of 5 tons of HVAC capacity. This is a monster load that is very unusual outside of southern US states. Getting through a hurricane is a lot easier when you can pull humidity out of your house the whole time. Running this much cooling on 1 powerwall would take you about 4 hours before you are in the same boat as everyone else. In many cases you need to go 72+ hours non stop. Gulf coast does not cool down that much at night after a cat5 blows through. It's practically unsurvivable in some cases.
- monstermunch 5y ago
  Author here. It was $20K installed total I also have 17kw of solar on my roof, and overproduce. I have 1:1 net metering, so a battery will not help financially unless that ends. the only utility a battery provides is backup power In the middle of summer I will use around 80kwh a day with lots of AC usage (Yes, I could get more insulation, better ducts, switch to minisplits. all in progress) A lot of that is at night, because it doesn't get any cooler at night really. It still stays hot and humid. Between sun I'm using around 30kwh, so I'd need 3 x Tesla Power Walls JUST TO MAKE THE NIGHT and hope it was sunny the day before to fully charge, and sunny the next day The cost for that is over $30,000, only makes the night, and still only outputs around the same as the generator. If it's not sunny but it's still warm, I'll be without power in a short time. If I'm spending that amount of money, I want power to stay on no matter what I'm waiting for Enhpase or Tesla, or someone to come out with an AC Coupled grid tie battery that has full generator support. That is the dream. Then in low solar days it could pre-charge the battery with the generator for night time. I don't want to drop a ton of cash now, when that is surely on the horizon. Either that, or the ability to use a car as a battery. If I could use a Tesla as a battery, I would probably go buy a 100 model Tesla. That would be 100kwh! much better

Scoundreller 5y ago

Probably an area with poor electricity infrastructure or in hurricane alley. Though 27kw is a lot. They’re on natural gas too, so I guess they’re not worried about running out of diesel (though nat gas can be another point of failure)

jondiggsit 5y ago
Overhead electrical lines, susceptible to outages during storms (trees). Available NG or LP. Makes sense to have a generator backup. 27kw is decent size depending on size of house. Re: the article - does the setup give more functionality to the smart transfer switch capabilities?
quickthrowman 5y ago
27kW is 225A, it’s what you want for fully backing up a 200A utility service, which is what all new construction has in my area, tho some older homes still have 100A services.
- spockz 5y ago
  Interesting, most residential homes in The Netherlands do go beyond 40A for 1 phase and 35A for a 3 phase setup. Granted. We don’t regularly run airconditioning either and most heating is on NG, but still…
- monstermunch 5y ago
  27kw is actually 115A
  - quickthrowman 5y ago
    You are correct, my bad! https://www.generac.com/generaccorporate/media/library/content/all-products/generators/resi-comm/protector/0l0036sby.pdf https://www.generac.com/generaccorporate/media/library/conte...

pjc50 5y ago

Friend of mine had a six day outage in the Scottish borders just now. Starting to look more reasonable to have some sort of backup, although 27kW could run an entire neighbourhood.

0x0000000 5y ago

I wouldn't say they're common, but I see plenty of at-home generators (Generac is popular, there are others) here in the Northeast USA. We have lots of old trees, and lots of snow, which maybe you share, but I guess it's our propensity to ignore infrastructure maintenance that leads to more, longer power outages. In the last ~12 months, I've thrice lost power for more than four hours. Once you start losing a fridge's worth of groceries every 4 months, amongst the other challenges with power outages, the at-home generators start to look attractive.

FractalParadigm 5y ago
It also helps that, at least here in Ontario (Canada), diesel is a very popular substitute to run in conventional oil-burning furnaces - having a generator is almost a no-brainer when you've already got tons of fresh fuel on hand. On the other hand, 27kW is a LOT of generating capacity for one home. I consider that the average home (at least in my area) only has 200A service, and I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain that it's not enough (outside my dad who wanted a 16-person hot tub for two people).
- quickthrowman 5y ago
  > On the other hand, 27kW is a LOT of generating capacity for one home. I consider that the average home (at least in my area) only has 200A service Uh, a 27kW generator is 225A at 120v, it’s the model you use if you want whole-house backup generator for a 200A service…
  - dkdk8283 5y ago
    That’s not how you calculate amps. We don’t know if it’s single or three phase. It’s 113 amps @ 240v single phase.
    - quickthrowman 5y ago
      You are correct, my bad. It’s 120/240 single phase, so 113 amps. https://www.generac.com/generaccorporate/media/library/content/all-products/generators/resi-comm/protector/0l0036sby.pdf https://www.generac.com/generaccorporate/media/library/conte...

dkdk8283 5y ago

I have a 22kw diesel and 500 gallons of fuel on site. During a disaster you can lose power for 2 weeks. It’s not overkill, it’s required in some areas.

beAbU 5y ago

In South Africa we have load shedding, where the power utility switches off large parts of the grid in an attempt to retain grid stability. Aging infrastructure, incompetence and corruption means that we've been suffering like this for almost 15 years now. During active loadshedding we can expect multiple 2-4 hour outages during the day. UPSes dont work because the batteries are destroyed after a couple of sessions. Proper battery based backup solutions are prohibitively expensive for most. Most upper middle class households have backup generators installed, usually 4-7kW. If you can afford it, you install a full solar power system, allowing you to disconnect completely from the grid. We don't have gas, oil furnaces or other sources of power (other than solar for the wealthy as explained above), and for most our hot water is made with electricity. The unreliable grid has become a fact of life for all south africans, and we have adapted according to our means, all the way from a fully independent off grid solar soltion for the rich, down to candles for the poorest of poor. I keep candles in my cupboard in case my backup system fails.

dylan604 5y ago

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Texas+February+2021+power+outage&t=h_&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Texas+February+2021+power+outage&t... Must not read the news much, but there are all sorts of things that cause people to be without power especially weather related. However, since you're claiming that the Dutch never loose power for more than minutes at a time, perhaps we all should consider relocating.

hourislate 5y ago

Because in America we can have everything. There is no limit to comfort and quality of life. Our standard of living can be quite high and very affordable. This setup was only 20k installed, a pittance. While this setup is robust, it is not unusual for people to have 10 -15 kw NatGas generators as backup just in case there is an unforeseen interruption to their power (some kind of accident or calamity). It's why America is a wonderful place to live, you can have everything, what you see and hear in the media about how awful it is here is fake news. -Canadian expat.

bbatchelder 5y ago

I live in a rural part of Florida, and we have experienced outages as long as 2.5 weeks. I went with the 26kw air-cooled model, and getting that installed along with a 1,000gal propane tank (and 800 gal of propane) was done for $18k. Our biggest load is HVAC, to run two AC units (5 ton and 3 ton). During an extended outage, we'd shut down half the house.

comeonseriously 5y ago

I'm in Florida. We get storms, tropical or otherwise, that will take out the power anywhere from hours to days during the summer. Our (my neighborhood) lines our buried, but the feed is still above ground. A lot of people here have generators for running essentials.

bruprup 5y ago

Why would the Netherlands have power outages? Being dutch you won't have CH4 shortages this winter (unlike what the EU might face). You'll supply your own industry, power stations and homes first and then your gas clients. You also only have one real natural disaster to optimize for, flooding. Europe has incredibly mild weather compared to the rest of the world. Add to that that your infrastructure is newer than N. Americas - it all got rebuilt after WW2. The supply cables into my old house were 100 years old. Finally, there is heating. Most homes need some form of an electrical motor for their heat (either as a blower for the furnace or a pump for their radiators). Consider how lucky Europe is climatically: the Netherlands is 52N. By comparison, Toronto is at the same latitude as Nice - this is due to the Gulf currents. Pipes in the Netherlands will not freeze if you spend a few days without heat. The pipes in the homes in the upper half of continental US will burst after a few days without heat. Finally, generators are not particularly bad for CO2 emissions or other pollution compared to the grid. Not when you consider their low usage. We can afford them, they address real problems, they're fairly benign, so why not? EDIT: clarity