5 ms·

I started off writing a lot of 68000 machine code. I was always amazed what you could accomplish with a lot of loops and branches. I never lost that sense that

I started off writing a lot of 68000 machine code. I was always amazed what you could accomplish with a lot of loops and branches. I never lost that sense that at whatever higher level I was at later on, it was all loops and branches.

DrAwdeOccarim 5y ago
Reminds me of biological metabolic systems. All loops and branches…
- ellimilial 5y ago
  With a lot of fuzziness, some state and temporal stuff.
  - DrAwdeOccarim 5y ago
    Yea, the fuzziness comes from protons shuttling about, tunneling around, electrons moving in cycles with phosphates. It's all just vibrating, bumping and bumbling about. I remember how blown my mind was when I first learned that all reactions catalyzed by enzymes would have happened anyway given enough time and the enzymes just tune the systems to work in concert in a time frame conducive to life.
- okareaman 5y ago
  Stephen Wolfram thinks the entire universe is built from simple rules https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_New_Kind_of_Science https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_New_Kind_of_Science
  - peterburkimsher 5y ago
    For the algorithm to work in many dimensions (XML tags), I feel like it must be a simple algorithm. Rule 110 is known to be Turing-complete. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_110 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_110 I have a feeling that Rule 90 is the most efficient algorithm: the Sierpiński Triangle, self-sacrifice, infinite recursion to a perfect pattern. I'm not mathematically talented enough to prove that though. https://mathworld.wolfram.com/Rule90.html https://mathworld.wolfram.com/Rule90.html Please come to chat about A New Kind of Science on Facebook! A couple of weeks ago I noticed that the page didn't exist, so created it. Hopefully Wolfram doesn't mind. We stand on the shoulders of giants. https://www.facebook.com/A-New-Kind-of-Science-100405265775721 https://www.facebook.com/A-New-Kind-of-Science-1004052657757...
  - Eelongate 5y ago
    I'm no physicist, but doesn't the Standard Model fit on a few pieces of paper? That the universe has rules that are a lot simpler than the behavior that emerges from those rules doesn't seem like novel claim. Wolfram's idea to examine the universe by exploring CA-space is the novel part I think.
GhettoComputers 5y ago
Have you seen this? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25788317 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25788317 Seems like we lose a lot of good technology and progress for random reasons, like the “ram” of society is finite.
- okareaman 5y ago
  Yes, it's a good talk. Think of all the extremely talented internal combustion engine engineers that will be obsolete in 20 - 30 years.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    Obsolete or repurposed? People studying physics like string theory may be completely wrong, but their skills can still be useful.
  - aj7 5y ago
    They’re obsolete now, except on YouTube.
    - b112 5y ago
      ICE has thousands of uses, they aren't just for cars. An example? Up above the treeline, there are communities relying on diesel for power. Solar is a no go, with months of darkness. Wind turbines are hard to maintain at -50C, and snow and ice can impede them. Even electric cars can only cover some of car use-cases, both due to range and refuel time issues. Expect ICE in 2050 still. And in most places, electric cars take petrol out of the car, and instead, see things like coal or natural gas burned, to make the electricity to charge them.
      - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
        > And in most places, electric cars take petrol out of the car, and instead, see things like coal or natural gas burned, to make the electricity to charge them. This is true, but also a good thing, while you present it as at best a wash and possibly a negative. Coal powered EVs are better than gasoline ICEs in most situations, and nobody has a 100% coal grid anymore so the benefits are even greater. There's lots of reasons why but the main one, which is relevant to this conversation as well, is the inefficiency of ICE compared with electric motors.
julian55 5y ago
Yes, one of my early jobs was writing Z80 code and I have the same sense.
- okareaman 5y ago
  When I eventually learned C it took me awhile to stop optimizing and let the compiler do it
Aeolun 5y ago
Ultimately all the interesting stuff happens in loops and branches, the rest is just organization.
- 6510 5y ago
  The organization is only needed for the inevitable bloat you add later to justify the rewrite. Its something like the sage uncovers the boiler, points at it and announces: Look! It is a beautiful marvel of technology! Why would you want to cover it up? Look! You might learn something!
suifbwish 5y ago
It’s not about how many loops you have; it’s about what you put in them and how deep.

DrAwdeOccarim 5y ago

Reminds me of biological metabolic systems. All loops and branches…

ellimilial 5y ago
With a lot of fuzziness, some state and temporal stuff.
- DrAwdeOccarim 5y ago
  Yea, the fuzziness comes from protons shuttling about, tunneling around, electrons moving in cycles with phosphates. It's all just vibrating, bumping and bumbling about. I remember how blown my mind was when I first learned that all reactions catalyzed by enzymes would have happened anyway given enough time and the enzymes just tune the systems to work in concert in a time frame conducive to life.
okareaman 5y ago
Stephen Wolfram thinks the entire universe is built from simple rules https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_New_Kind_of_Science https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_New_Kind_of_Science
- peterburkimsher 5y ago
  For the algorithm to work in many dimensions (XML tags), I feel like it must be a simple algorithm. Rule 110 is known to be Turing-complete. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_110 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_110 I have a feeling that Rule 90 is the most efficient algorithm: the Sierpiński Triangle, self-sacrifice, infinite recursion to a perfect pattern. I'm not mathematically talented enough to prove that though. https://mathworld.wolfram.com/Rule90.html https://mathworld.wolfram.com/Rule90.html Please come to chat about A New Kind of Science on Facebook! A couple of weeks ago I noticed that the page didn't exist, so created it. Hopefully Wolfram doesn't mind. We stand on the shoulders of giants. https://www.facebook.com/A-New-Kind-of-Science-100405265775721 https://www.facebook.com/A-New-Kind-of-Science-1004052657757...
- Eelongate 5y ago
  I'm no physicist, but doesn't the Standard Model fit on a few pieces of paper? That the universe has rules that are a lot simpler than the behavior that emerges from those rules doesn't seem like novel claim. Wolfram's idea to examine the universe by exploring CA-space is the novel part I think.

GhettoComputers 5y ago

Have you seen this? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25788317 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25788317 Seems like we lose a lot of good technology and progress for random reasons, like the “ram” of society is finite.

okareaman 5y ago
Yes, it's a good talk. Think of all the extremely talented internal combustion engine engineers that will be obsolete in 20 - 30 years.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  Obsolete or repurposed? People studying physics like string theory may be completely wrong, but their skills can still be useful.
- aj7 5y ago
  They’re obsolete now, except on YouTube.
  - b112 5y ago
    ICE has thousands of uses, they aren't just for cars. An example? Up above the treeline, there are communities relying on diesel for power. Solar is a no go, with months of darkness. Wind turbines are hard to maintain at -50C, and snow and ice can impede them. Even electric cars can only cover some of car use-cases, both due to range and refuel time issues. Expect ICE in 2050 still. And in most places, electric cars take petrol out of the car, and instead, see things like coal or natural gas burned, to make the electricity to charge them.
    - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
      > And in most places, electric cars take petrol out of the car, and instead, see things like coal or natural gas burned, to make the electricity to charge them. This is true, but also a good thing, while you present it as at best a wash and possibly a negative. Coal powered EVs are better than gasoline ICEs in most situations, and nobody has a 100% coal grid anymore so the benefits are even greater. There's lots of reasons why but the main one, which is relevant to this conversation as well, is the inefficiency of ICE compared with electric motors.

julian55 5y ago

Yes, one of my early jobs was writing Z80 code and I have the same sense.

okareaman 5y ago
When I eventually learned C it took me awhile to stop optimizing and let the compiler do it

Aeolun 5y ago

Ultimately all the interesting stuff happens in loops and branches, the rest is just organization.

6510 5y ago
The organization is only needed for the inevitable bloat you add later to justify the rewrite. Its something like the sage uncovers the boiler, points at it and announces: Look! It is a beautiful marvel of technology! Why would you want to cover it up? Look! You might learn something!

suifbwish 5y ago

It’s not about how many loops you have; it’s about what you put in them and how deep.