4 ms·

"You can expect to make about USD 30,000 (before taxes) for the academic year." Well that's a lie. NC State is $20k for a CS PhD Student, oh, and that's before

"You can expect to make about USD 30,000 (before taxes) for the academic year." Well that's a lie. NC State is $20k for a CS PhD Student, oh, and that's before you pay the $4k a year on student fees. The article glosses over it, but you're paid dirt. And what sucks more, is you're paid good dirt, so all the other PhD departments look at your with their barely 10k stipends and think you're ungrateful for your poverty line wage.

eastendguy 5y ago
In Europe you get paid more, especially in Switzerland. And in general, English is sufficient for getting a CS PhD in Europe. Two examples of many: - https://imprs.is.mpg.de/ https://imprs.is.mpg.de/ - https://ethz.ch/en/the-eth-zurich/working-teaching-and-research/welcome-center/employment-contract-and-salary/salary.html https://ethz.ch/en/the-eth-zurich/working-teaching-and-resea...
- Dracophoenix 5y ago
  I was once told that ETH Zurich renders instruction in German and requires it for certain courses. Is that still the case?
  - smithsonian112 5y ago
    For PhD and masters level, everything is in English except maybe some specific civil engineering courses about regulations. Also, I believe that for CS, everything is in English starting from Bachelors, with lectures in English and small problem classes being held either in German or English (you can choose).
  - Shacklz 5y ago
    Back when I was there, the first year of BSc was fully in German (apparently mandated by law), afterwards, there was the occasional lecture in German but usually with slides/exercises/exams available in English as well as English-speaking tutors. There are also students from the French/Italian part of Switzerland, so there's a natural convergence towards English rather quick, at least that was my experience. (take this with a grain of salt, it's been a while and my information might be outdated)
- sofixa 5y ago
  > English is sufficient for getting a CS PhD in Europe. Depends on the country and programme, but more and more so. Even France, traditionally not at all known for programmes at any level fully in English, has been making huge advancements in those areas, and there are full programmes in the Paris Saclay university hub entirely in English, exclusively to attract foreigners who don't speak French.
- 0xfaded 5y ago
  Are there European universities that don't require a masters degree to start a phd?
  - acky 5y ago
    Not to my knowledge. However, there are countries that allow you to have an overlap of a masters and phd (or shorten the masters and begin the phd early). For example: Germany - https://www.academics.de/ratgeber/master-und-promotion-gleichzeitig https://www.academics.de/ratgeber/master-und-promotion-gleic...
    - angrais 5y ago
      Most universities in the United Kingdom do not require a master's to do a PhD.
  - eastendguy 5y ago
    Yes, there are. It depends on the program. For example here, no masters is required: https://www.cis.mpg.de/cs-max-planck/ https://www.cis.mpg.de/cs-max-planck/ "During the preparatory phase, students take courses to build on their existing knowledge of core computer science areas. Depending on a student’s prior academic background (e.g., MS degree), course requirements may be partially or completely waived at the time of admission." or here: https://ellis.eu/faqs#can-i-apply-if-i-don-t-have-a-msc-degree https://ellis.eu/faqs#can-i-apply-if-i-don-t-have-a-msc-degr... "Rules in Europe vary. Some participating universities require a MSc, others accept BSc students as well (sometimes under specific conditions). You will find this information in the portal if you click on the list of this year's recruiting advisors."
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    You usually don't need a masters to do a PhD in the UK. In some places you technically don't even need any degree, but in practice you wouldn't get accepted without one. (I was looking into this as an option for someone recently!)
  - alcidesfonseca 5y ago
    In Portugal it is usually expected that you have one, but every now and then we accept a student without one. Also notice that in Europe you can get a bachelor and masters in 4-5 years (3+1 or 2), which can be the length of a US undergrad degree.
- skrishnamurthi 5y ago
  You have to also take into account the cost of living. I've lived in Zürich. It was almost literally twice what it costs me to live in New England, which is one of the most expensive parts of the US. So that 2x stipend will not get you 2x as far.
rgrmrts 5y ago
The article specifically calls out top tier schools, which pay more. You can also increase your stipend by TAing in the summer. Source: currently applying to grad school Better source: https://www.cmu.edu/stugov/gsa/Campus-Advocacy/Stipend-Report-2018-2019.html https://www.cmu.edu/stugov/gsa/Campus-Advocacy/Stipend-Repor...
- tsumnia 5y ago
  "calls out top tier schools" Um, ok, ouch... jk :D There are ways to increase your pay and doing summer work is one of those. However, the student fees portion of my comment still rings true. You'll be spending about $4k on student fees, $500 on parking. Depending on your martial status, number of kids, type of apartment, you will still be barely scraping by. Source: All but dissertation
  - rgrmrts 5y ago
    I apologize, I didn’t mean to make a value statement about whether or not what’s considered a “top tier school” means as much as some folks think it does. That said, schools with big names have bigger endowments and more connections etc so it makes sense. The author also specifically mentions applying to schools where you know faculty doing something that excites you and not going off rankings. This post is based on a Zoom call he conducted a month or so ago for folks and I signed up and attended. Otherwise, I totally agree with you. Stipends are very little money, especially if you’re supporting others.
    - skrishnamurthi 5y ago
      Endowments don't pay for PhD students. Students are largely paid out of grant funding.
- ModernMech 5y ago
  Wow: CMU SCS stipend is at $35k, and tuition is $45,700. That's $80,700 per year to support a PhD student before the markup.
ModernMech 5y ago
You are paid dirt but there are a couple mitigating factors: 1) you don’t have to pay FICA taxes, which is a big deal. 2) you don’t have to pay tuition or taxes on the remission. That can be almost $30k per year before you reach candidacy.
lumost 5y ago
Anecdotally, this seems like one of the reasons cs phds are rarely pursued by U.S. citizens. Even if you love research, the programs will select for people who have good grades/institutions, who lack student debt, can invest 4 years at 20k/yr and survive, and are willing to turn down 6 figure jobs in industry. Given this, it’s not a surprise that 79% of CS phd students in the US are international, where undergrad costs are often substantially lower. http://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/The-Importance-of-International-Students.NFAP-Policy-Brief.October-20171.pdf http://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/The-Importance-of...
- bsder 5y ago
  It's also because universities LOVE foreign students. Foreign students pay full-rate--generally in cash up front.
  - Per_Bothner 5y ago
    That is not true at the Ph.D. level, at least for CS at good universites. Tuition is generally paid by grant/research money, or otherwise by the department, as part of the funding you are offered. I'm pretty sure that from the point of view of the university, department, or researcher it makes no difference whether a student is foreign or not, except there is more paper-work and other complications (visas etc) for foreign students. However, foreign students may be more willing to accept the relatively low stipends offered.
  - skrishnamurthi 5y ago
    No, students do not pay to get a PhD in CS. It's literally in the FAQ you're commenting on. You'd know that if you read it.

eastendguy 5y ago

In Europe you get paid more, especially in Switzerland. And in general, English is sufficient for getting a CS PhD in Europe. Two examples of many: - https://imprs.is.mpg.de/ https://imprs.is.mpg.de/ - https://ethz.ch/en/the-eth-zurich/working-teaching-and-research/welcome-center/employment-contract-and-salary/salary.html https://ethz.ch/en/the-eth-zurich/working-teaching-and-resea...

Dracophoenix 5y ago
I was once told that ETH Zurich renders instruction in German and requires it for certain courses. Is that still the case?
- smithsonian112 5y ago
  For PhD and masters level, everything is in English except maybe some specific civil engineering courses about regulations. Also, I believe that for CS, everything is in English starting from Bachelors, with lectures in English and small problem classes being held either in German or English (you can choose).
- Shacklz 5y ago
  Back when I was there, the first year of BSc was fully in German (apparently mandated by law), afterwards, there was the occasional lecture in German but usually with slides/exercises/exams available in English as well as English-speaking tutors. There are also students from the French/Italian part of Switzerland, so there's a natural convergence towards English rather quick, at least that was my experience. (take this with a grain of salt, it's been a while and my information might be outdated)
sofixa 5y ago
> English is sufficient for getting a CS PhD in Europe. Depends on the country and programme, but more and more so. Even France, traditionally not at all known for programmes at any level fully in English, has been making huge advancements in those areas, and there are full programmes in the Paris Saclay university hub entirely in English, exclusively to attract foreigners who don't speak French.
0xfaded 5y ago
Are there European universities that don't require a masters degree to start a phd?
- acky 5y ago
  Not to my knowledge. However, there are countries that allow you to have an overlap of a masters and phd (or shorten the masters and begin the phd early). For example: Germany - https://www.academics.de/ratgeber/master-und-promotion-gleichzeitig https://www.academics.de/ratgeber/master-und-promotion-gleic...
  - angrais 5y ago
    Most universities in the United Kingdom do not require a master's to do a PhD.
- eastendguy 5y ago
  Yes, there are. It depends on the program. For example here, no masters is required: https://www.cis.mpg.de/cs-max-planck/ https://www.cis.mpg.de/cs-max-planck/ "During the preparatory phase, students take courses to build on their existing knowledge of core computer science areas. Depending on a student’s prior academic background (e.g., MS degree), course requirements may be partially or completely waived at the time of admission." or here: https://ellis.eu/faqs#can-i-apply-if-i-don-t-have-a-msc-degree https://ellis.eu/faqs#can-i-apply-if-i-don-t-have-a-msc-degr... "Rules in Europe vary. Some participating universities require a MSc, others accept BSc students as well (sometimes under specific conditions). You will find this information in the portal if you click on the list of this year's recruiting advisors."
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  You usually don't need a masters to do a PhD in the UK. In some places you technically don't even need any degree, but in practice you wouldn't get accepted without one. (I was looking into this as an option for someone recently!)
- alcidesfonseca 5y ago
  In Portugal it is usually expected that you have one, but every now and then we accept a student without one. Also notice that in Europe you can get a bachelor and masters in 4-5 years (3+1 or 2), which can be the length of a US undergrad degree.
skrishnamurthi 5y ago
You have to also take into account the cost of living. I've lived in Zürich. It was almost literally twice what it costs me to live in New England, which is one of the most expensive parts of the US. So that 2x stipend will not get you 2x as far.

rgrmrts 5y ago

The article specifically calls out top tier schools, which pay more. You can also increase your stipend by TAing in the summer. Source: currently applying to grad school Better source: https://www.cmu.edu/stugov/gsa/Campus-Advocacy/Stipend-Report-2018-2019.html https://www.cmu.edu/stugov/gsa/Campus-Advocacy/Stipend-Repor...

tsumnia 5y ago
"calls out top tier schools" Um, ok, ouch... jk :D There are ways to increase your pay and doing summer work is one of those. However, the student fees portion of my comment still rings true. You'll be spending about $4k on student fees, $500 on parking. Depending on your martial status, number of kids, type of apartment, you will still be barely scraping by. Source: All but dissertation
- rgrmrts 5y ago
  I apologize, I didn’t mean to make a value statement about whether or not what’s considered a “top tier school” means as much as some folks think it does. That said, schools with big names have bigger endowments and more connections etc so it makes sense. The author also specifically mentions applying to schools where you know faculty doing something that excites you and not going off rankings. This post is based on a Zoom call he conducted a month or so ago for folks and I signed up and attended. Otherwise, I totally agree with you. Stipends are very little money, especially if you’re supporting others.
  - skrishnamurthi 5y ago
    Endowments don't pay for PhD students. Students are largely paid out of grant funding.
ModernMech 5y ago
Wow: CMU SCS stipend is at $35k, and tuition is $45,700. That's $80,700 per year to support a PhD student before the markup.

ModernMech 5y ago

You are paid dirt but there are a couple mitigating factors: 1) you don’t have to pay FICA taxes, which is a big deal. 2) you don’t have to pay tuition or taxes on the remission. That can be almost $30k per year before you reach candidacy.

lumost 5y ago

Anecdotally, this seems like one of the reasons cs phds are rarely pursued by U.S. citizens. Even if you love research, the programs will select for people who have good grades/institutions, who lack student debt, can invest 4 years at 20k/yr and survive, and are willing to turn down 6 figure jobs in industry. Given this, it’s not a surprise that 79% of CS phd students in the US are international, where undergrad costs are often substantially lower. http://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/The-Importance-of-International-Students.NFAP-Policy-Brief.October-20171.pdf http://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/The-Importance-of...

bsder 5y ago
It's also because universities LOVE foreign students. Foreign students pay full-rate--generally in cash up front.
- Per_Bothner 5y ago
  That is not true at the Ph.D. level, at least for CS at good universites. Tuition is generally paid by grant/research money, or otherwise by the department, as part of the funding you are offered. I'm pretty sure that from the point of view of the university, department, or researcher it makes no difference whether a student is foreign or not, except there is more paper-work and other complications (visas etc) for foreign students. However, foreign students may be more willing to accept the relatively low stipends offered.
- skrishnamurthi 5y ago
  No, students do not pay to get a PhD in CS. It's literally in the FAQ you're commenting on. You'd know that if you read it.