4 ms·

The vaccines are great (And I'm boosted)! We agree on that. But I hope we agree that anti-vaxxers suck. And they are providing a pool for the virus to evolve pa

The vaccines are great (And I'm boosted)! We agree on that. But I hope we agree that anti-vaxxers suck. And they are providing a pool for the virus to evolve past the vaccines (as Omicron seems to do). As for the risk of death. I know people who prefer normality with a ~0.5-1.0% additional chance of random death over continued isolation. I get that. I prefer isolation to that myself but I won't impose my views on anyone else. Why can't we just politely accept both sorts have to coexist? Go back to normality if you wish, be my guest even, except where we have to mix upon where you put on a mask or GTFO. Why is this unreasonable? Because apparently this is crazytalk to some.

nradov 5y ago
While I encourage everyone eligible to get vaccinated, the current thinking is that new variants are most likely to evolve in immunocompromised patients who have persistent infections. Vaccines aren't very effective for patients with malfunctioning immune systems. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-variants-may-arise-in-people-with-compromised-immune-systems/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-variants-ma... https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsb2104756 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsb2104756
unmole 5y ago
Unvaccinated people will eventually catch the virus and in the overwhelming majority of the cases recover and develop potent and robust immunity against future infection.
- varelse 5y ago
  For about 5-7 months or until a new variant emerges but let's not talk about that, right? I enthusiastically support your right to play Russian roulette with pretty good odds if only you support my right not to play. After all if you die and I live that's more social security benefits for me. I'm less worried about dying of the thing than I am of an indefinite and impossible to cure case of long covid and all the horrible things that come with it. People have literally killed themselves over it. But your body your choices and all that. Just remember that goes both ways.
  - unmole 5y ago
    > For about 5-7 months or until a new variant emerges Neutralizing antibody titres remain stable even 13 months post infection[0]. This isn't an upper limit, it's just that there's no data beyond this. And despite whatever you might have heard, reinfection remains extremely rare across all variants. All data points to immunity acquired after an infection being more potent and robust than that imparted by vaccines. I'm not unvaccinated, I'm not American and I don't work for Google. I don't have a dog in this particular fight. But if you decide to spread FUD and misinformation on your way to find new scapegoats, expect to be called out for it. 0: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-021-07057-0 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-021-07057-0
    - varelse 5y ago
      I'll see your preliminary study and raise you mine. As little as 3 months and up to 5 years. The consequences of long COVID alone are enough for me to avoid catching it (along with the six-figure medical bills this has been generating) but apparently that's unamerican to some people. Unless we magically vaccinate the world and convince people to wear masks in closed spaces we're stuck on this demonic hamster wheel indefinitely. What you're suggesting here is go catch a very serious case of covid and nearly die so that one has that multi-year long-term immunity. Not planning to take such advice but I welcome you to do so (for science of course, you can get a Nobel prize for doing that if you live after all). Too bad if a new variant like omicron comes along and skips past those antibodies though but those are the breaks. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00219-6/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5... In fact, let's take this stupidity all the way home. Let's all go back to the craptastically ventilated open offices for 8-12 hours 5 days a week. And since there's no vaccine mandate, your eventual chance of exposure to COVID is 100%. There have been ~180K breakthrough infections that led to ~11K hospitalizations or about a 6.4% chance of ending up in the hospital so far. https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/covid-19-breakthrough-data https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/covid-19-breakthrough-data If you end up in the hospital, that's anywhere from $100K-$500K of medical bills. https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/average-charge-for-covid-19-hospitalization-by-state.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/average-charge... All of that is pre-omicron which seems evolved to evade vaccines. You may to wish to take that risk, that's your business.

nradov 5y ago

While I encourage everyone eligible to get vaccinated, the current thinking is that new variants are most likely to evolve in immunocompromised patients who have persistent infections. Vaccines aren't very effective for patients with malfunctioning immune systems. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-variants-may-arise-in-people-with-compromised-immune-systems/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-variants-ma... https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsb2104756 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsb2104756

unmole 5y ago

Unvaccinated people will eventually catch the virus and in the overwhelming majority of the cases recover and develop potent and robust immunity against future infection.

varelse 5y ago
For about 5-7 months or until a new variant emerges but let's not talk about that, right? I enthusiastically support your right to play Russian roulette with pretty good odds if only you support my right not to play. After all if you die and I live that's more social security benefits for me. I'm less worried about dying of the thing than I am of an indefinite and impossible to cure case of long covid and all the horrible things that come with it. People have literally killed themselves over it. But your body your choices and all that. Just remember that goes both ways.
- unmole 5y ago
  > For about 5-7 months or until a new variant emerges Neutralizing antibody titres remain stable even 13 months post infection[0]. This isn't an upper limit, it's just that there's no data beyond this. And despite whatever you might have heard, reinfection remains extremely rare across all variants. All data points to immunity acquired after an infection being more potent and robust than that imparted by vaccines. I'm not unvaccinated, I'm not American and I don't work for Google. I don't have a dog in this particular fight. But if you decide to spread FUD and misinformation on your way to find new scapegoats, expect to be called out for it. 0: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-021-07057-0 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-021-07057-0
  - varelse 5y ago
    I'll see your preliminary study and raise you mine. As little as 3 months and up to 5 years. The consequences of long COVID alone are enough for me to avoid catching it (along with the six-figure medical bills this has been generating) but apparently that's unamerican to some people. Unless we magically vaccinate the world and convince people to wear masks in closed spaces we're stuck on this demonic hamster wheel indefinitely. What you're suggesting here is go catch a very serious case of covid and nearly die so that one has that multi-year long-term immunity. Not planning to take such advice but I welcome you to do so (for science of course, you can get a Nobel prize for doing that if you live after all). Too bad if a new variant like omicron comes along and skips past those antibodies though but those are the breaks. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00219-6/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5... In fact, let's take this stupidity all the way home. Let's all go back to the craptastically ventilated open offices for 8-12 hours 5 days a week. And since there's no vaccine mandate, your eventual chance of exposure to COVID is 100%. There have been ~180K breakthrough infections that led to ~11K hospitalizations or about a 6.4% chance of ending up in the hospital so far. https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/covid-19-breakthrough-data https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/covid-19-breakthrough-data If you end up in the hospital, that's anywhere from $100K-$500K of medical bills. https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/average-charge-for-covid-19-hospitalization-by-state.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/average-charge... All of that is pre-omicron which seems evolved to evade vaccines. You may to wish to take that risk, that's your business.