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I'm waiting for the day that the US declares a foreign corporation as an "enemy combatant", as they have done with foreign citizen wahabbist jihadis and US citi

I'm waiting for the day that the US declares a foreign corporation as an "enemy combatant", as they have done with foreign citizen wahabbist jihadis and US citizens such as Anwar Al-Awlaki. Given the extent and depth of US-Israeli cooperation and ties, the precedeing theoretical is probably going to remain in the realm of theoretical.

afterburner 5y ago
Just declare them a terrorist organization.
azernik 5y ago
This isn't War on Terror-adjacent - it's a local repressive government catching embassy workers in a dragnet while spying on the opposition. The full security-state treatment will not be in effect. Still bad, though!
notsureaboutpg 5y ago
They basically declared the embargoed Iranian corporations as enemy combatants a while ago, if that's what you mean.
drusepth 5y ago
Didn't they get pretty close with Huawei when the previous president issued an executive order in response to state spying fears that: * banned the sale of any of their phones or networking products in the US * banned US companies selling product to Huawei * cut funding to wireless carriers using Huawei equipment ...and then pressured allied countries to do the same?
- walrus01 5y ago
  The investigation into Huawei was going on for many years prior to 2016. It's not exactly an initiative of the previous president. I sat in briefings about Huawei and ZTE in 2007. Regretfully can't say more.
  - deathhand 5y ago
    Are you personally upset about the clear intelligence failures and extrfiltration of protected information? I've grown up watching this unfold and I'm shocked that the power groups seem to be so ineffectual at times that it's laughable(but that may be by design...)
    - walrus01 5y ago
      It's an absolute shitshow from top to bottom. The people who know what they're doing in intelligence/counter-intelligence agency infosec/netsec (and within major DoS and DoD contractors) have been fully aware and ringing the alarm bells for years. The technologically unsophisticated politicians have been mostly ignoring it.
      - adamrezich 5y ago
        how much of the ignorance is willful?
        cronix 5y ago
        You'll know when the stock trades are released.
- goodpoint 5y ago
  > Didn't they get pretty close with Huawei No, given that jihadists were kidnapped, tortured and murdered - all of this illegally.
md_ 5y ago
NSO's PE investors are big-time American and British funds. Just sayin'.
- bjourne 5y ago
  According to Wikipedia, NSO is owned by by its two founders Omri Lavie and Shalev Hulio and Novalpina Capital. According to Sky News Novalpina Capital is getting liquidated and their stake in NSO will be sold to a third party: https://news.sky.com/story/pegasus-spyware-owner-novalpina-to-be-liquidated-after-failure-to-resolve-internal-bust-up-12365638 https://news.sky.com/story/pegasus-spyware-owner-novalpina-t...
  - md_ 5y ago
    Right. I can’t tell if you’re agreeing with me or not. :) Prior to Novalpina, it was Francisco Partners. Point being, NSO has received huge amounts of money from the kind of people who, well, YCombinator founders seek out.
    - bjourne 5y ago
      Yes, but it is not Francisco Partners now so it appears there is no "big-time American fund" involved and the British one appears to want to get rid of its stake.
      - makeitdouble 5y ago
        From the side-lines this thread looks like: - md: X and Y are deeply involved in this company - yiu: No they are not. X cleanly destroyed all the papers and officially ask we don’t talk about them. Y is a bit late but will finish cuting ties in a minute now.
        tsol 5y ago
        Agreed. I find many of the responses unconvincing. They are in many ways exactly what you'd expect. Sure that doesn't prove anything directly, but on these matters having direct and public proof is the exception not the rule.
fmajid 5y ago
That's pretty much what they did with NSO, which is getting the Huawei treatment: https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/03/us_sanctions_spyware/ https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/03/us_sanctions_spyware/ reportedly, this has created havoc on NSO, since for instance none of the cloud providers can sell services to them to host their zero-days, among other logistics headaches. Their recently hired CEO resigned.
- BrianOnHN 5y ago
  What's the consequence for destabilizing governments worldwide? Logistics headaches? Got it.
  - fmajid 5y ago
    The NSO guys are in it purely for the money. IIRC there was a deal on the cards for some investors to buy the company that fell apart because of the sanctions, so the NSO founders can no longer cash out. As for destabilizing governments, they are doing the opposite, they are helping authoritarian governments worldwide crack down on journalists and dissidents, or murder them in the case of Saudi Arabia and Jamal Khashoggi. Reportedly, after the Khashoggi murder, NSO yanked the Saudi account but was forced to reinstate it by Netanyahu who was pursuing diplomatic relations with them.
    - puchatek 5y ago
      Good point. Although i think the preceding comment was using "destabilizing governments" as a catch-all for non-democratic and morally dubious activity.
    - stuntkite 5y ago
      The episode of Darknet Diaries on NSO was very informative. https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/100/ https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/100/ I knew about Israeli security consultancies putting out stringrays and phone cracking tools, but I did not know about NSO. He has a good interview with one of the lead devs.
lostlogin 5y ago
> I'm waiting for the day that the US declares a foreign corporation as an "enemy combatant" It’s particularly interesting to watch as the company is based in a country that is a very close ally.
- galimaufry 5y ago
  Ignorant question: is Israel literally an ally of the US? I know they are not in NATO or 5 Eyes, and I don't think they have some other close agreement, like US and Japan.
  - amoshi 5y ago
    Despite not being in 5 eyes, Israel does get special treatment in the form of raw intelligence data from the US. >The National Security Agency routinely shares raw intelligence data with Israel without first sifting it to remove information about US citizens, a top-secret document provided to the Guardian by whistleblower Edward Snowden reveals. >According to the agreement, the intelligence being shared would not be filtered in advance by NSA analysts to remove US communications. >While NSA documents tout the mutually beneficial relationship of Sigint sharing, another report, marked top secret and dated September 2007, states that the relationship, while central to US strategy, has become overwhelmingly one-sided in favor of Israel. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-personal-data-israel-documents https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-...
  - DaveExeter 5y ago
    Israel is a client state of the USA. They are America's enforcers in the Middle East.
    - vorpalhex 5y ago
      That's factually wrong. Israel is it's own full state.
      - MomoXenosaga 5y ago

afterburner 5y ago

Just declare them a terrorist organization.

azernik 5y ago

This isn't War on Terror-adjacent - it's a local repressive government catching embassy workers in a dragnet while spying on the opposition. The full security-state treatment will not be in effect. Still bad, though!

notsureaboutpg 5y ago

They basically declared the embargoed Iranian corporations as enemy combatants a while ago, if that's what you mean.

drusepth 5y ago

Didn't they get pretty close with Huawei when the previous president issued an executive order in response to state spying fears that: * banned the sale of any of their phones or networking products in the US * banned US companies selling product to Huawei * cut funding to wireless carriers using Huawei equipment ...and then pressured allied countries to do the same?

walrus01 5y ago
The investigation into Huawei was going on for many years prior to 2016. It's not exactly an initiative of the previous president. I sat in briefings about Huawei and ZTE in 2007. Regretfully can't say more.
- deathhand 5y ago
  Are you personally upset about the clear intelligence failures and extrfiltration of protected information? I've grown up watching this unfold and I'm shocked that the power groups seem to be so ineffectual at times that it's laughable(but that may be by design...)
  - walrus01 5y ago
    It's an absolute shitshow from top to bottom. The people who know what they're doing in intelligence/counter-intelligence agency infosec/netsec (and within major DoS and DoD contractors) have been fully aware and ringing the alarm bells for years. The technologically unsophisticated politicians have been mostly ignoring it.
    - adamrezich 5y ago
      how much of the ignorance is willful?
      - cronix 5y ago
        You'll know when the stock trades are released.
goodpoint 5y ago
> Didn't they get pretty close with Huawei No, given that jihadists were kidnapped, tortured and murdered - all of this illegally.

md_ 5y ago

NSO's PE investors are big-time American and British funds. Just sayin'.

bjourne 5y ago
According to Wikipedia, NSO is owned by by its two founders Omri Lavie and Shalev Hulio and Novalpina Capital. According to Sky News Novalpina Capital is getting liquidated and their stake in NSO will be sold to a third party: https://news.sky.com/story/pegasus-spyware-owner-novalpina-to-be-liquidated-after-failure-to-resolve-internal-bust-up-12365638 https://news.sky.com/story/pegasus-spyware-owner-novalpina-t...
- md_ 5y ago
  Right. I can’t tell if you’re agreeing with me or not. :) Prior to Novalpina, it was Francisco Partners. Point being, NSO has received huge amounts of money from the kind of people who, well, YCombinator founders seek out.
  - bjourne 5y ago
    Yes, but it is not Francisco Partners now so it appears there is no "big-time American fund" involved and the British one appears to want to get rid of its stake.
    - makeitdouble 5y ago
      From the side-lines this thread looks like: - md: X and Y are deeply involved in this company - yiu: No they are not. X cleanly destroyed all the papers and officially ask we don’t talk about them. Y is a bit late but will finish cuting ties in a minute now.
      - tsol 5y ago
        Agreed. I find many of the responses unconvincing. They are in many ways exactly what you'd expect. Sure that doesn't prove anything directly, but on these matters having direct and public proof is the exception not the rule.

fmajid 5y ago

That's pretty much what they did with NSO, which is getting the Huawei treatment: https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/03/us_sanctions_spyware/ https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/03/us_sanctions_spyware/ reportedly, this has created havoc on NSO, since for instance none of the cloud providers can sell services to them to host their zero-days, among other logistics headaches. Their recently hired CEO resigned.

BrianOnHN 5y ago
What's the consequence for destabilizing governments worldwide? Logistics headaches? Got it.
- fmajid 5y ago
  The NSO guys are in it purely for the money. IIRC there was a deal on the cards for some investors to buy the company that fell apart because of the sanctions, so the NSO founders can no longer cash out. As for destabilizing governments, they are doing the opposite, they are helping authoritarian governments worldwide crack down on journalists and dissidents, or murder them in the case of Saudi Arabia and Jamal Khashoggi. Reportedly, after the Khashoggi murder, NSO yanked the Saudi account but was forced to reinstate it by Netanyahu who was pursuing diplomatic relations with them.
  - puchatek 5y ago
    Good point. Although i think the preceding comment was using "destabilizing governments" as a catch-all for non-democratic and morally dubious activity.
  - stuntkite 5y ago
    The episode of Darknet Diaries on NSO was very informative. https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/100/ https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/100/ I knew about Israeli security consultancies putting out stringrays and phone cracking tools, but I did not know about NSO. He has a good interview with one of the lead devs.

lostlogin 5y ago

> I'm waiting for the day that the US declares a foreign corporation as an "enemy combatant" It’s particularly interesting to watch as the company is based in a country that is a very close ally.

galimaufry 5y ago
Ignorant question: is Israel literally an ally of the US? I know they are not in NATO or 5 Eyes, and I don't think they have some other close agreement, like US and Japan.
- amoshi 5y ago
  Despite not being in 5 eyes, Israel does get special treatment in the form of raw intelligence data from the US. >The National Security Agency routinely shares raw intelligence data with Israel without first sifting it to remove information about US citizens, a top-secret document provided to the Guardian by whistleblower Edward Snowden reveals. >According to the agreement, the intelligence being shared would not be filtered in advance by NSA analysts to remove US communications. >While NSA documents tout the mutually beneficial relationship of Sigint sharing, another report, marked top secret and dated September 2007, states that the relationship, while central to US strategy, has become overwhelmingly one-sided in favor of Israel. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-personal-data-israel-documents https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-...
- DaveExeter 5y ago
  Israel is a client state of the USA. They are America's enforcers in the Middle East.
  - vorpalhex 5y ago
    That's factually wrong. Israel is it's own full state.
    - MomoXenosaga 5y ago