5 ms·

It's a bad time to cut quality. Lego has never really had serious contenders in its decades of existence, but the Chinese knockoffs are getting pretty good from

It's a bad time to cut quality. Lego has never really had serious contenders in its decades of existence, but the Chinese knockoffs are getting pretty good from what I can tell. They are producing knockoff sets for 1/3 of the cost, and the quality is reaching lego-levels. And this isn't low profit margin. Lego has gotten the Chinese to raid several of these guys (Lepin) and it didn't slow them at all. The real gauntlet just got thrown down recently. Remember the UCS Millenium Falcon? Well a MOC builder made a UCS but with an interior model of the Falcon as well. Guess where you can buy that? Well, NOT Lego, and I think that's a problem in Lego management. With the internet there should be FAR MORE Lego-provided sets. Sure, have the Harry Potters and Star Wars sets. But we are talking about a company that (granted to very good tolerances) is charging a LOT for very cheap plastic. They should be exploiting far more of the long tail. Why can't I buy from Lego a complete set of old-school Classic Space? Or Castle? Why do sets go "out of print"? They are leaving money on the table, and the Chinese/Malaysian/etc companies will happily fill the void. From what I can tell, the fake Lego industry has already structured itself into a somewhat legal resistant form. The base legos are manufactured by one set of companies, which they can do 100% legally. Those companies sell the blocks to the companies that produce the knockoff sets. If you raid those companies, well fine they lose some stock and they just setup somewhere else with the exact same sourcing.

rootusrootus 5y ago
1000% agree. My wife is into Lego creator/expert sets, in particular buildings. So I typically buy her a new one at least twice a year, for her birthday and Christmas. I'm having to work harder now to find sets she hasn't already built, and having to pay more because they're out of production already and Lego isn't building new ones too often. I accidentally bought a Chinese knock-off set, and it was surprisingly good. The brick quality was totally comparable to Lego. The part that was lacking was the build methodology -- it was damn near impossible to build successfully the way the instructions said. But there's more variety in the knock-off sets, more accessories like lighting and such, they cost half as much (and probably still have a ridiculous margin). Lego should be worried, and they should step up their game. Becoming known for collectibility seems to be their strategy right now, but it is going to make people like me look elsewhere.
- 2muchcoffeeman 5y ago
  The part that was lacking was the build methodology -- it was damn near impossible to build successfully the way the instructions said. How much does good documentation and designing models costs? You can’t just copy pieces of plastic. I have a Creality 3D printer. The hardware itself was good. But the tinkering needed to get it working was a lot. All the useful help came from the community. The official support is useless and every time I contacted them they are incapable of telling me if something is in spec, out of spec, or even point me to documentation. Imagine giving a child a physical toy that you need to consult the internet for instructions because the included ones are incomplete or wrong. Maybe you have a piece missing and the instructions are wrong. Even if Lego is charging too much, they may have head room. When they feel they are being threatened, they can lower prices and still have the best kits and we’d all flock back.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    > How much does good documentation and designing models costs? I agree. This is probably the most difficult part by a good margin for the Chinese companies to effectively copy. The documentation itself was surprisingly good (they basically copied the style of the Lego books), what they don't have are people who are the equal of the 'lego master model builder'. Someone who really knows how to engineer the model both for the final result as well as the process to make it.
pjc50 5y ago
> Why do sets go "out of print"? Injection moulds have a finite life, so parts go out of print. Unfortunately their tendency to use set-specific parts causes this to make sets go out of print. (Obviously they could make another mould, but that commits them to a whole print run to make it economically viable.)
- svnt 5y ago
  That is definitely the first-order engineering answer. However once the concept/possibility enters into executive consciousness all bets on the “why” shift to profit motive.
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    Why wouldn't they have a "profit motive"? They are a company, not a charity.
- mcphage 5y ago
  Injection moulds do have a finite life, but since set-specific parts are only used in a single set, those moulds won't wear out nearly as fast as the moulds for common bricks.
- throwaway41597 5y ago
  What is a realistic lifetime for an injection mold used for Lego bricks? Does someone here know the order of magnitude of pieces you can manufacture with one?
  - pjc50 5y ago
    https://www.wired.com/2013/02/retired-lego-mold-reddit/ https://www.wired.com/2013/02/retired-lego-mold-reddit/ gives an example of 120,000,000 (!), which probably means the "special piece" argument doesn't entirely work. On the other hand, they quote "one moulding machine working for an hour almost equals one LEGO star destroyer", which does explain why they're so expensive.
Grustaf 5y ago
> With the internet there should be FAR MORE Lego-provided sets. Sure, have the Harry Potters and Star Wars sets. But we are talking about a company that (granted to very good tolerances) is charging a LOT for very cheap plastic. They should be exploiting far more of the long tail. Lego now has infinitely more models than when I grew up, and they seemingly increase the catalog every year, so this is a very strange criticism. They have Marvel stuff, Friends, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Simpsons, etc etc etc. The number of sets is truly bewildering. Obviously they can't produce everything forever. Also, they are not selling "cheap plastic" anymore than Netflix is selling "cheap electrons". The plastic bricks are just the medium, the product is the design, the Lego brand, the licensed brand (if any), the whole experience.
- dwd 5y ago
  I still have a collection of original instructions from the mid-70s onward: I'm guessing they are potentially more valuable than the actual bricks that my kids have now outgrown.
- gmueckl 5y ago
  I haven't had a close look at Lego bricks for years until a few weeks ago and got a chance to compare that with copycat set. That made me extremely aware of the high level of quality that a Lego set has: the bricks are extremely well made and durable, the sets are working and (more or less) exciting and the build instructions are designed meticulously to make it clear where everything needs to go. The instructions are broken into smaller steps for kits aimed at younger children. One thing they seem to have lost over the years is the flexibility of the kits: I remember many kits having instructions for several alternate models, encouraging you much more to take things apart again after building. Newer kits are mostly a single model and that limits the fun that you end up having with them. The invitation to tinker seems gone.
  - tspike 5y ago
    There is an excellent and extensive range of Creator 3-in-1 sets, as well as the entire Classic line which encourages specifically this. For the themed sets, they stopped including ideas on the back of the box because people would complain that instructions weren't included.
HWR_14 5y ago
> Why can't I buy from Lego a complete set of old-school Classic Space? Or Castle? Why do sets go "out of print"? Unlike digital copies, molds have a limited lifespan. Making a one-off piece for a set needs to be done in the tens of thousands (or more) or not at all. Meanwhile, if I understand, they have a program to assemble parts lists and instructions for one offs.

rootusrootus 5y ago

1000% agree. My wife is into Lego creator/expert sets, in particular buildings. So I typically buy her a new one at least twice a year, for her birthday and Christmas. I'm having to work harder now to find sets she hasn't already built, and having to pay more because they're out of production already and Lego isn't building new ones too often. I accidentally bought a Chinese knock-off set, and it was surprisingly good. The brick quality was totally comparable to Lego. The part that was lacking was the build methodology -- it was damn near impossible to build successfully the way the instructions said. But there's more variety in the knock-off sets, more accessories like lighting and such, they cost half as much (and probably still have a ridiculous margin). Lego should be worried, and they should step up their game. Becoming known for collectibility seems to be their strategy right now, but it is going to make people like me look elsewhere.

2muchcoffeeman 5y ago
The part that was lacking was the build methodology -- it was damn near impossible to build successfully the way the instructions said. How much does good documentation and designing models costs? You can’t just copy pieces of plastic. I have a Creality 3D printer. The hardware itself was good. But the tinkering needed to get it working was a lot. All the useful help came from the community. The official support is useless and every time I contacted them they are incapable of telling me if something is in spec, out of spec, or even point me to documentation. Imagine giving a child a physical toy that you need to consult the internet for instructions because the included ones are incomplete or wrong. Maybe you have a piece missing and the instructions are wrong. Even if Lego is charging too much, they may have head room. When they feel they are being threatened, they can lower prices and still have the best kits and we’d all flock back.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  > How much does good documentation and designing models costs? I agree. This is probably the most difficult part by a good margin for the Chinese companies to effectively copy. The documentation itself was surprisingly good (they basically copied the style of the Lego books), what they don't have are people who are the equal of the 'lego master model builder'. Someone who really knows how to engineer the model both for the final result as well as the process to make it.

pjc50 5y ago

> Why do sets go "out of print"? Injection moulds have a finite life, so parts go out of print. Unfortunately their tendency to use set-specific parts causes this to make sets go out of print. (Obviously they could make another mould, but that commits them to a whole print run to make it economically viable.)

svnt 5y ago
That is definitely the first-order engineering answer. However once the concept/possibility enters into executive consciousness all bets on the “why” shift to profit motive.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  Why wouldn't they have a "profit motive"? They are a company, not a charity.
mcphage 5y ago
Injection moulds do have a finite life, but since set-specific parts are only used in a single set, those moulds won't wear out nearly as fast as the moulds for common bricks.
throwaway41597 5y ago
What is a realistic lifetime for an injection mold used for Lego bricks? Does someone here know the order of magnitude of pieces you can manufacture with one?
- pjc50 5y ago
  https://www.wired.com/2013/02/retired-lego-mold-reddit/ https://www.wired.com/2013/02/retired-lego-mold-reddit/ gives an example of 120,000,000 (!), which probably means the "special piece" argument doesn't entirely work. On the other hand, they quote "one moulding machine working for an hour almost equals one LEGO star destroyer", which does explain why they're so expensive.

Grustaf 5y ago

> With the internet there should be FAR MORE Lego-provided sets. Sure, have the Harry Potters and Star Wars sets. But we are talking about a company that (granted to very good tolerances) is charging a LOT for very cheap plastic. They should be exploiting far more of the long tail. Lego now has infinitely more models than when I grew up, and they seemingly increase the catalog every year, so this is a very strange criticism. They have Marvel stuff, Friends, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Simpsons, etc etc etc. The number of sets is truly bewildering. Obviously they can't produce everything forever. Also, they are not selling "cheap plastic" anymore than Netflix is selling "cheap electrons". The plastic bricks are just the medium, the product is the design, the Lego brand, the licensed brand (if any), the whole experience.

dwd 5y ago
I still have a collection of original instructions from the mid-70s onward: I'm guessing they are potentially more valuable than the actual bricks that my kids have now outgrown.
gmueckl 5y ago
I haven't had a close look at Lego bricks for years until a few weeks ago and got a chance to compare that with copycat set. That made me extremely aware of the high level of quality that a Lego set has: the bricks are extremely well made and durable, the sets are working and (more or less) exciting and the build instructions are designed meticulously to make it clear where everything needs to go. The instructions are broken into smaller steps for kits aimed at younger children. One thing they seem to have lost over the years is the flexibility of the kits: I remember many kits having instructions for several alternate models, encouraging you much more to take things apart again after building. Newer kits are mostly a single model and that limits the fun that you end up having with them. The invitation to tinker seems gone.
- tspike 5y ago
  There is an excellent and extensive range of Creator 3-in-1 sets, as well as the entire Classic line which encourages specifically this. For the themed sets, they stopped including ideas on the back of the box because people would complain that instructions weren't included.

HWR_14 5y ago

> Why can't I buy from Lego a complete set of old-school Classic Space? Or Castle? Why do sets go "out of print"? Unlike digital copies, molds have a limited lifespan. Making a one-off piece for a set needs to be done in the tens of thousands (or more) or not at all. Meanwhile, if I understand, they have a program to assemble parts lists and instructions for one offs.