3 ms·

So press the button and guilty until proven innocent?

by koolba 5y ago

shawabawa3 5y ago
no? Press the button and innocent until proven guilty
jacquesm 5y ago
No, press the button and innocent until reviewed and found to continue to be innocent. Similar to those 'in case of emergency, break glass (abuse will be prosecuted)' emergency brakes on trains and other similar constructs. This is a solved problem, I don't see why you would attach any special significance to it.
- koolba 5y ago
  Having every previously analog device around us turn into a puppet of the police state is not a solution to a problem. It’s the basis for a series of new problems. And like all of these nanny state mandates, we end up paying the bill.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  In practice what that sounds like is well to do jerks in their nice suburbs and gated communities will be free to drunkenly rearrange their driveway (for whatever benign reason, to get the lawnmower out of the garage or something) and that people in "bad" areas where there is little political power and the .gov is more or less free to abuse them at will will found guilty and be given an option to not be found guilty if they pay into the system some other way (fine and/or driving school is the usual mechanism). Basically it will just become a side channel for revenue just like everything else about drunk driving already is.
cmaggiulli 5y ago
If you refuse to give blood or breath sample you automatically lose license. Also there are presumptions of intoxication after your first impaired driving conviction in NYS ( it’s not that simple, but too complicated to outline in short form ). So, this wouldn’t really be unprecedented. Not saying I agree or disagree. The stakes are very high with impaired driving. In many states your first impaired driving charge can be felonious even if there is no injury or accident. In about half of all states your second impaired driving is automatically a felony despite no injury or accident. Society has a right to protect its roadways. However, we also need to be very careful about wanton criminalization. The penal system in the USA is backwards and barbaric
- koolba 5y ago
  I’m fine with all of those things. Drunk driving is a terrible thing and should be punished appropriately as a deterrent. But this isn’t a punishment of the offenders, it’s a mandate upon everybody, the vast majority of which are law abiding. This is just like the majority of gun control laws that do little more than infringe the rights of the law abiding gun owner.
- andrew_ 5y ago
  > If you refuse to give blood or breath sample you automatically lose license. Please, add nuance when making such an assertion. It completely depends on the state you're in and which factors the state considers when refusing. For example; In Florida it may result in the suspension of your license for one year, which can be appealed.

So press the button and guilty until proven innocent?

by koolba 5y ago

So press the button and guilty until proven innocent?

shawabawa3 5y ago

no? Press the button and innocent until proven guilty

jacquesm 5y ago

No, press the button and innocent until reviewed and found to continue to be innocent. Similar to those 'in case of emergency, break glass (abuse will be prosecuted)' emergency brakes on trains and other similar constructs. This is a solved problem, I don't see why you would attach any special significance to it.

koolba 5y ago
Having every previously analog device around us turn into a puppet of the police state is not a solution to a problem. It’s the basis for a series of new problems. And like all of these nanny state mandates, we end up paying the bill.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
In practice what that sounds like is well to do jerks in their nice suburbs and gated communities will be free to drunkenly rearrange their driveway (for whatever benign reason, to get the lawnmower out of the garage or something) and that people in "bad" areas where there is little political power and the .gov is more or less free to abuse them at will will found guilty and be given an option to not be found guilty if they pay into the system some other way (fine and/or driving school is the usual mechanism). Basically it will just become a side channel for revenue just like everything else about drunk driving already is.

cmaggiulli 5y ago

If you refuse to give blood or breath sample you automatically lose license. Also there are presumptions of intoxication after your first impaired driving conviction in NYS ( it’s not that simple, but too complicated to outline in short form ). So, this wouldn’t really be unprecedented. Not saying I agree or disagree. The stakes are very high with impaired driving. In many states your first impaired driving charge can be felonious even if there is no injury or accident. In about half of all states your second impaired driving is automatically a felony despite no injury or accident. Society has a right to protect its roadways. However, we also need to be very careful about wanton criminalization. The penal system in the USA is backwards and barbaric

koolba 5y ago
I’m fine with all of those things. Drunk driving is a terrible thing and should be punished appropriately as a deterrent. But this isn’t a punishment of the offenders, it’s a mandate upon everybody, the vast majority of which are law abiding. This is just like the majority of gun control laws that do little more than infringe the rights of the law abiding gun owner.
andrew_ 5y ago
> If you refuse to give blood or breath sample you automatically lose license. Please, add nuance when making such an assertion. It completely depends on the state you're in and which factors the state considers when refusing. For example; In Florida it may result in the suspension of your license for one year, which can be appealed.