19 ms·

I couldn't find a video of the display in use, so here it goes (for the 13.3" version) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBfWkxOfUfQ https://www.youtube.com/watch

by zwirbl 5y ago

I couldn't find a video of the display in use, so here it goes (for the 13.3" version) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBfWkxOfUfQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBfWkxOfUfQ seems a little slow and the screen refreshes sometimes excessive, but much better than I expected

vasilakisfil 5y ago
for some reason, from the video, screen doesn't feel the same quality as other e-ink readers like kindle. edit: I mean, kindle videos feel like you are reading a real paper, while here feels like you are in an actual screen.
leemailll 5y ago
try this https://jvod.300hu.com/vod/product/0cecde96-786d-418d-a5b7-3e3358e53141/bfc999e730ea4f199a30ff63e6cf08c8.mp4?source=2&h265=h265/18799/fe740e13b2a049009440dc71e98a717d.mp4 https://jvod.300hu.com/vod/product/0cecde96-786d-418d-a5b7-3...
avar 5y ago
A little slow? I was pretty amazed by how fast it is in that video. I haven't kept up with E-Ink technology, but I own an old Kindle and it takes it 0.5-1s to refresh, but that 13.3" display is keeping up with finger gestures when scrolling. Yes it would suck for watching movies, but it seems to be really useful for anything involving text, e.g. i.e. a secondary monitor to read documentation on, or even program on. I suppose the lag in text input being updated might be more distracting than when using it purely for reading.
- formerly_proven 5y ago
  Fast for eink, but also absolutely terrible ghosting, which makes the speed considerably less impressive considering how straining it looks. What's the point of a fairly quick response to screen updates when you have to press the manual refresh button in order to read what's on it?
  - avar 5y ago
    I haven't used this product, but if you look at the linked YouTube video starting at around 11 minutes you can see it going from "ghosting" that's hardly noticeable when reading an article, to really noticeable ghosting and lower resolution (but much faster refresh rate) in the "video mode". If you're watching a video presumably the "ghosting" would all mush together. E.g. at 11m47s[1] the reviewer is in the text mode, hasn't pressed the manual refresh button, and when I pause the video the text doesn't seem to have any visible artifacts (maybe some for around half a second, until the image "settles"?). I agree that it would suck for a lot of applications, but as a secondary screen to read text/documentation, or even watch the scrolling output from a CI system this seems amazing. Have you used this display in person? Is it worse than it seems to be in that video? If so for what (if any/all) modes and use-cases? 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBfWkxOfUfQ#t=11m47s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBfWkxOfUfQ#t=11m47s
  - mdp2021 5y ago
    I spend many hours of text editing / word processing on an Onyx Boox Max2, 13.3'', and have no problem with ghosting. It depends on the so-called "waveform", or firmware level algorithms for dot switching (and it's probably using Regal, though I am not sure about the details): I would say really almost-zero problems with text rendering (and update).
junon 5y ago
This is pretty on par for e-ink at the moment. Since the pixels are physical material, there is the mechanical movement time that has to be taken into account.
DoingIsLearning 5y ago
I still don't understand how there isn't a market for a work _laptop_ with a display like this? - Longer battery life - easy on the eyes for long sessions reading/writing - Allows me to actually work outside!!! There is a huge market of people out there (Thinking about the typical ThinkPad users) that don't give 2 craps about color accuracy. We literally just want to read and write. Anyone envolved in Product Management that can give some insights? Is it too expensive? Are there not enough users? Are vendors scared of the lackluster of the device when compared with shinny reflective displays?
- Epa095 5y ago
  The old OLPC laptop had a weird screen which kind of became a black and white e-ink screen when the brightness got turned all the way down, and was a quite normal colour screen otherwise. No clue how it was made though, and if there has been any further work in that direction.
  - tern 5y ago
    If you're curious about this, it's an interesting story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_Qi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_Qi and I still want a device with one
  - timClicks 5y ago
    The model number is the XO-1 in case anyone wants to investigate.
- throw8932894 5y ago
  I work on a beach a lot. Laser printer costs $100 and paper is like 0.01 cents. Probably better usability. This thing is not hardened for outdoor use. I dont think it would work in cafe. If it drops on floor, liquids, sand, salty water....
- breakfastduck 5y ago
  No one is going to sell a device that costs significantly more than any other for the same power to provide what 99% of users would consider a sub par/ unusable display. Like seriously can you imagine trying to sell a laptop that is unable to watch any media, play any games and has the refresh rate / perceived performance of a 15 year old tablet. This stuff isn't ready to be a 'main' display yet.
pcurve 5y ago
There's "fast" mode. https://youtu.be/oBfWkxOfUfQ?t=994 https://youtu.be/oBfWkxOfUfQ?t=994 Image quality goes down, but I was very very very impressed...
misja111 5y ago
I have a Boox Note and the excessive screen refreshes are really annoying there as well. But I'm impressed by the part in the demo where they show the playing of a video, this works pretty smoothly and I don't see any flickering. Now I'm wondering why those screen refreshes in 'normal' apps are needed? Is this just some artifact because the apps were written for normal displays and haven't been adjusted for e-ink?
abalaji 5y ago
Maybe I haven't kept up with the eink market but this seems super impressive especially the video part around 14:33. I have a Remarkable and it's pretty slow to switch pages but I assume that's to prevent ghosting. With a little bit of computer vision magic, they might be able to add a content aware feature that swaps the modes based on what's being displayed. https://youtu.be/oBfWkxOfUfQ?t=873 https://youtu.be/oBfWkxOfUfQ?t=873

by zwirbl 5y ago

vasilakisfil 5y ago

for some reason, from the video, screen doesn't feel the same quality as other e-ink readers like kindle. edit: I mean, kindle videos feel like you are reading a real paper, while here feels like you are in an actual screen.

leemailll 5y ago

try this https://jvod.300hu.com/vod/product/0cecde96-786d-418d-a5b7-3e3358e53141/bfc999e730ea4f199a30ff63e6cf08c8.mp4?source=2&h265=h265/18799/fe740e13b2a049009440dc71e98a717d.mp4 https://jvod.300hu.com/vod/product/0cecde96-786d-418d-a5b7-3...

avar 5y ago

A little slow? I was pretty amazed by how fast it is in that video. I haven't kept up with E-Ink technology, but I own an old Kindle and it takes it 0.5-1s to refresh, but that 13.3" display is keeping up with finger gestures when scrolling. Yes it would suck for watching movies, but it seems to be really useful for anything involving text, e.g. i.e. a secondary monitor to read documentation on, or even program on. I suppose the lag in text input being updated might be more distracting than when using it purely for reading.

formerly_proven 5y ago
Fast for eink, but also absolutely terrible ghosting, which makes the speed considerably less impressive considering how straining it looks. What's the point of a fairly quick response to screen updates when you have to press the manual refresh button in order to read what's on it?
- avar 5y ago
  I haven't used this product, but if you look at the linked YouTube video starting at around 11 minutes you can see it going from "ghosting" that's hardly noticeable when reading an article, to really noticeable ghosting and lower resolution (but much faster refresh rate) in the "video mode". If you're watching a video presumably the "ghosting" would all mush together. E.g. at 11m47s[1] the reviewer is in the text mode, hasn't pressed the manual refresh button, and when I pause the video the text doesn't seem to have any visible artifacts (maybe some for around half a second, until the image "settles"?). I agree that it would suck for a lot of applications, but as a secondary screen to read text/documentation, or even watch the scrolling output from a CI system this seems amazing. Have you used this display in person? Is it worse than it seems to be in that video? If so for what (if any/all) modes and use-cases? 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBfWkxOfUfQ#t=11m47s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBfWkxOfUfQ#t=11m47s
- mdp2021 5y ago
  I spend many hours of text editing / word processing on an Onyx Boox Max2, 13.3'', and have no problem with ghosting. It depends on the so-called "waveform", or firmware level algorithms for dot switching (and it's probably using Regal, though I am not sure about the details): I would say really almost-zero problems with text rendering (and update).

junon 5y ago

This is pretty on par for e-ink at the moment. Since the pixels are physical material, there is the mechanical movement time that has to be taken into account.

DoingIsLearning 5y ago

I still don't understand how there isn't a market for a work _laptop_ with a display like this? - Longer battery life - easy on the eyes for long sessions reading/writing - Allows me to actually work outside!!! There is a huge market of people out there (Thinking about the typical ThinkPad users) that don't give 2 craps about color accuracy. We literally just want to read and write. Anyone envolved in Product Management that can give some insights? Is it too expensive? Are there not enough users? Are vendors scared of the lackluster of the device when compared with shinny reflective displays?

Epa095 5y ago
The old OLPC laptop had a weird screen which kind of became a black and white e-ink screen when the brightness got turned all the way down, and was a quite normal colour screen otherwise. No clue how it was made though, and if there has been any further work in that direction.
- tern 5y ago
  If you're curious about this, it's an interesting story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_Qi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_Qi and I still want a device with one
- timClicks 5y ago
  The model number is the XO-1 in case anyone wants to investigate.
throw8932894 5y ago
I work on a beach a lot. Laser printer costs $100 and paper is like 0.01 cents. Probably better usability. This thing is not hardened for outdoor use. I dont think it would work in cafe. If it drops on floor, liquids, sand, salty water....
breakfastduck 5y ago
No one is going to sell a device that costs significantly more than any other for the same power to provide what 99% of users would consider a sub par/ unusable display. Like seriously can you imagine trying to sell a laptop that is unable to watch any media, play any games and has the refresh rate / perceived performance of a 15 year old tablet. This stuff isn't ready to be a 'main' display yet.

pcurve 5y ago

There's "fast" mode. https://youtu.be/oBfWkxOfUfQ?t=994 https://youtu.be/oBfWkxOfUfQ?t=994 Image quality goes down, but I was very very very impressed...

misja111 5y ago

I have a Boox Note and the excessive screen refreshes are really annoying there as well. But I'm impressed by the part in the demo where they show the playing of a video, this works pretty smoothly and I don't see any flickering. Now I'm wondering why those screen refreshes in 'normal' apps are needed? Is this just some artifact because the apps were written for normal displays and haven't been adjusted for e-ink?

abalaji 5y ago

Maybe I haven't kept up with the eink market but this seems super impressive especially the video part around 14:33. I have a Remarkable and it's pretty slow to switch pages but I assume that's to prevent ghosting. With a little bit of computer vision magic, they might be able to add a content aware feature that swaps the modes based on what's being displayed. https://youtu.be/oBfWkxOfUfQ?t=873 https://youtu.be/oBfWkxOfUfQ?t=873