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If we were a serious society, then the conversation would be about: immune vs non-immune high risk vs low risk infectious vs non-infectious But no, it's jab

If we were a serious society, then the conversation would be about: immune vs non-immune high risk vs low risk infectious vs non-infectious But no, it's jabbed vs unjabbed. It doesn't make sense. Everyone in Germany who wants the vaccine has had it, and if you've had Covid, you're about as protected as the vaccinated. Furthermore, leaky vaccines don't prevent transmission, can't eliminate the virus (animal reservoirs) and may even make it more virulent. See Marek's disease: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15757475/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15757475/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/leaky-vaccines-enhance-spread-of-deadlier-chicken-viruses https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/leaky-vac... This is not a rational, science-based policy. This is about punishing the non-compliant, mostly the under class. As the upper class continues with their events surrounded by masked servants, with endless examples of officials breaking their own rules. Worse, we are normalizing the dehumanization of a group of people who we're told are diseased and dangerous and it's all their fault. Germany of all places should be absolutely allergic to such rhetoric.

EricE 5y ago
>Germany of all places should be absolutely allergic to such rhetoric. You would think! Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it and all that...
- fragmede 5y ago
  Maybe we shouldn't want Germany to repeat the 30's? Just a thought.
disabled 5y ago
Your logic does not work. If people in a developed country would simply become vaccinated and boosted, then only the vaccinated or not condition would typically apply in mainstream society--and not the 3 other above conditions. While all 4 are discriminatory, the first 3 are not inherently due to personal choices or preferences. People choose not to get vaccinated harming society as a whole--and make the other 3 above conditions come into play.
- generalizations 5y ago
  You're still just talking about jabbed vs unjabbed.
  - disabled 5y ago
    The point is that jabbed versus unjabbed takes precedence over the 3 above listed categories. If everyone who can be jabbed is; then the above 3 categories need not apply, even in the case of omicron. This is especially the case if a booster is given, creating secondary immune response to Sars-CoV-2. Yes, there will be some immune escape but many of the antibodies that are acquired via boosters will cross react with omicron.
comex 5y ago
> Furthermore, the vaccines don't prevent transmission, They do prevent transmission, since they make people less likely to be infected, and if you're not infected with the virus you won't transmit it. The vaccines are somewhat less effective at preventing people from being infected at all than they are at preventing hospitalization and death, but still significantly effective. [1] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/11/11/science/vaccine-waning-immunity.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/11/11/science/vacci...
- tim333 5y ago
  They reduce transmission but don't prevent it completely.
- jyscao 5y ago
  > They do prevent transmission, since they make people less likely to be infected, and if you're not infected with the virus you won't transmit it. Incorrect. Intramuscular vaccines induce antibody production at nearby lymph nodes inside of the body; and these mRNA vaccines in particular also cause S-antibodies to circulate in one's blood (even though that's unintended and the long term effects are still unknown). Because the intramuscular route of administration, S-antibodies are not present in significant quantities inside the lungs of vaccinated individuals. Thus with covid-19 being an airborne disease, vaccinated people can still exhale virus-containing breaths and transmit the disease to others, who can then go on to contract the illness, whether they're vaccinated or not. So while the vaccines offer protection against serious illness to those who receive it, it certainly does not prevent transmission.
  - joshuamorton 5y ago
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.10.14.21264959v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.10.14.21264959v... (And this is broadly corroborated by other studies) The consensus from studies is that, while not 100% effective at preventing tranmission, vaccines do reduce the transmission of Covid, even considering Delta (Omnicron is too recent for there to be data, but there's no reason to doubt transmission would also be reduced).
raxxorrax 5y ago
> Germany of all places should be absolutely allergic to such rhetoric. It is the German gene.

EricE 5y ago

>Germany of all places should be absolutely allergic to such rhetoric. You would think! Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it and all that...

fragmede 5y ago
Maybe we shouldn't want Germany to repeat the 30's? Just a thought.

disabled 5y ago

Your logic does not work. If people in a developed country would simply become vaccinated and boosted, then only the vaccinated or not condition would typically apply in mainstream society--and not the 3 other above conditions. While all 4 are discriminatory, the first 3 are not inherently due to personal choices or preferences. People choose not to get vaccinated harming society as a whole--and make the other 3 above conditions come into play.

generalizations 5y ago
You're still just talking about jabbed vs unjabbed.
- disabled 5y ago
  The point is that jabbed versus unjabbed takes precedence over the 3 above listed categories. If everyone who can be jabbed is; then the above 3 categories need not apply, even in the case of omicron. This is especially the case if a booster is given, creating secondary immune response to Sars-CoV-2. Yes, there will be some immune escape but many of the antibodies that are acquired via boosters will cross react with omicron.

comex 5y ago

> Furthermore, the vaccines don't prevent transmission, They do prevent transmission, since they make people less likely to be infected, and if you're not infected with the virus you won't transmit it. The vaccines are somewhat less effective at preventing people from being infected at all than they are at preventing hospitalization and death, but still significantly effective. [1] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/11/11/science/vaccine-waning-immunity.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/11/11/science/vacci...

tim333 5y ago
They reduce transmission but don't prevent it completely.
jyscao 5y ago
> They do prevent transmission, since they make people less likely to be infected, and if you're not infected with the virus you won't transmit it. Incorrect. Intramuscular vaccines induce antibody production at nearby lymph nodes inside of the body; and these mRNA vaccines in particular also cause S-antibodies to circulate in one's blood (even though that's unintended and the long term effects are still unknown). Because the intramuscular route of administration, S-antibodies are not present in significant quantities inside the lungs of vaccinated individuals. Thus with covid-19 being an airborne disease, vaccinated people can still exhale virus-containing breaths and transmit the disease to others, who can then go on to contract the illness, whether they're vaccinated or not. So while the vaccines offer protection against serious illness to those who receive it, it certainly does not prevent transmission.
- joshuamorton 5y ago
  https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.10.14.21264959v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.10.14.21264959v... (And this is broadly corroborated by other studies) The consensus from studies is that, while not 100% effective at preventing tranmission, vaccines do reduce the transmission of Covid, even considering Delta (Omnicron is too recent for there to be data, but there's no reason to doubt transmission would also be reduced).

raxxorrax 5y ago

> Germany of all places should be absolutely allergic to such rhetoric. It is the German gene.