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All of this is just pessimistic complaining. Flip this and be optimistic and you'll find life isn't all that bad. Think about the last hundred years... * Rich

All of this is just pessimistic complaining. Flip this and be optimistic and you'll find life isn't all that bad. Think about the last hundred years... * Rich people are still rich and poor people have access to more food, medicine, and opportunity then any time in human history. * Families have and always should lookout for themselves first. That's the way things work and should work. * Society is able to support more art then ever before. * We have computers... HOW are you complaining about one super amazing piece of technology that didn't exist 5 years ago compared to another piece of incredible technology. Seriously? Be more amazed with how far this stuff has come in such a short time. And like... We're not even in world war 3. Life is pretty good on planet earth, idk where you've been but come on back down.

thumbellina 5y ago
Perhaps the continual raising awareness of problems is a key part of progress.
- kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
  No, technical progress is key part of progress. Most innovators are not driven by the constant complaints of other people.
  - moffkalast 5y ago
    If you keep complaining about the lack of water though a pipeline will eventually be built.
    - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
      No, if you collect money to pay for it it will be built. Or if the inventors themselves want the water and build it for themselves.
      - cblconfederate 5y ago
        If you don't recognize the problem i doubt you ll collect any money for it
        kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
        I didn't say anything about not recognizing problems.
        birdyrooster 5y ago
        You did because you stated there is no utility in communicating needs via complaint. I think you are digging a hole and instead of realizing how deep you have dug, you just keep going hoping to find yourself on the winning side of this silly semantic debate.
        kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
        I think the "complaint fraction" is digging the hole, not me. Maybe you could point out some inventors/innovators who were driven by complaints?
        teawrecks 5y ago
        You literally did.
        kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
        No I literally didn't. This is ridiculous.
      - philosopher1234 5y ago
        You have never in your life been motivated to help someone else with needs you didnt have?
        kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
  - nfw2 5y ago
    A lot of (most?) innovation is driven by problems that need solving. It's a lot easier to start a company if there is already a large audience that really wants a problem solved and are willing to pay for the solution. Having an amazing novel idea and then convincing people not having it in their life is a problem is way harder
    - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
      Yes of course - problems, needs, not complaints.
      - nfw2 5y ago
        what is the difference? isn't a complaint essentially just stating that you have a problem
        kazinator 5y ago
        "Complain" sometimes takes on the nuance of unproductive whining (repeatedly bringing up problems that others in the situation cannot fix), entitled attitude (why aren't things such and such: everyone around me should accommodate to me), excessive focus on minor things (I hate this whole situation that I can't change, and I can make that constantly known by harping on minor aspects) and such.
      - philosopher1234 5y ago
        complaining is talking about needs. i dont understand your distinction
  - ignoramous 5y ago
    > No, technical progress is key part of progress. If nothing is rooted in people's / society's / community's / government's wants and needs, then what incentives are left for progress? > Most innovators are not driven by the constant complaints of other people. I think you may be conflating inventors with innovators. Inventors, like innovators, are a product of their time. The leaps and bounds come from invention. And invention follows necessity, as an old saying goes.
    - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
      I wasn't talking about needs, I was talking about complaints. Innovators/Inventors are driven by their needs, not by other people's complaints. Unless they need to stop their spouses complaining or something like that.
      - long_time_gone 5y ago
        >Innovators/Inventors are driven by their needs, not by other people's complaints. A need is the solution to a complaint, no?
      - birdyrooster 5y ago
        Complaints may be communicating needs, so if you remove complaint then you stop the flow of communication about needs.
        kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
        You can complain, all I said is that innovators are not driven by complaints. Not sure if people complained about horses a lot before the automobile came along.
        ignoramous 5y ago
        They sure did complain about slow transit. Of course, the key isn't listening to customer's solutions but to their problems, and then inventing on their behalf. This is what Amazon calls "customer obsession". Jeff Bezos on learned helplessness, innovation, making decisions with data and despite data (2005): https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/WhnDvvNS8zQ https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/WhnDvvNS8zQ
  - teawrecks 5y ago
    So protesting is useless, and necessity is not the mother of invention?
    - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
      Protesting is mostly useless.
jimsimmons 5y ago
Than anytime in human history is such a dumb way to characterize it. I mean, do we really expect the world to go backwards? It has happened in the past for sure, but regressions have not been a thing in the modern world for quite a while. So “than anytime in human history” has, is and will likely be true and that makes the characterization pointless.
- moffkalast 5y ago
  Also "at least we're not in WW3, life is good!" is such a crap argument I can't even. A guy writes a blog post on important issues to focus on and what this guy comes up with is: "shut up, be happy".
  - cactus2093 5y ago
    I think the author invited this though. Half the article is a well thought out discussion of important problems. There is some nuanced thinking about markets and capitalism that addressed both the pros and cons. But the article started and ended with completely unsupported claims about how the world is going to hell and "we all feel it". The commenter you're responding to merely pointed out that, no we don't all feel it, most people actually have things very good these days. And that doesn't mean there aren't still major issues that we should be working hard on.
- encoderer 5y ago
  Well, we are living through one right now. Empty shelves and stores that close early and restaurants out of business and schools that are hardly teaching our kids.
enraged_camel 5y ago
>> * Rich people are still rich and poor people have access to more food, medicine, and opportunity then any time in human history. Back in the day slaves had to transport ice from mountains so that the king could have his chilled wine every evening, whereas today most people in the West have fridges at home. This does not mean that those who have fridges should just put aside their feelings of malaise and adopt an optimistic outlook, because at the end of the day that malaise is a result of one's wealth and power relative to others who occupy the same time and space.
- jspaetzel 5y ago
  Sounds great, nobody should ever have anything nicer then anyone else. Please try to create that and get back with me about how it goes.
- klabb3 5y ago
  Yep, agreed. For instance, you have more bandwidth and CPU power today than in the 90s but the number of rent seekers you and walled gardens you have to use are much bigger. So the topology has changed.
neuronic 5y ago
Yea live is good on Earth with a massive climate catastrophe rolling in. But sure, the technocrats just believe some Silicon Valley tech is gonna fix it.
klabb3 5y ago
Before antibiotics, birth control and ICEs there was germ theory, virtuous celibacy and steam engines. Pointing out and analyzing issues in the world is part of innovation.
maerF0x0 5y ago
> Families have and always should lookout for themselves first. That's the way things work and should work. You're assuming this axiomatically, at first blush this is simply nepotism which is typically a term w/ negative connotations.
- jspaetzel 5y ago
  Most of the time "parents caring for children" is considered a good thing. It only is an issue when there's societal pressure to do otherwise, which is also a good thing.
- AutumnCurtain 5y ago
  It outright states meritocracy is wrong...
joe_the_user 5y ago
Some expectations are pessimistic, some are optimistic. Societies, over time, have gone up and gone down. So sometimes an optimistic perspective has proven right and sometimes a pessimistic perspective has proven right. The article has a decent argument why a pessimistic approach is plausible. Your examples don't anything particular specific and so they don't really give a case that an optimistic perspective is appropriate. I mean, optimism might appropriate but "change your view to see the good" is just kind of manipulative (something very common now, a reason for pessimism, sadly).

thumbellina 5y ago

Perhaps the continual raising awareness of problems is a key part of progress.

kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
No, technical progress is key part of progress. Most innovators are not driven by the constant complaints of other people.
- moffkalast 5y ago
  If you keep complaining about the lack of water though a pipeline will eventually be built.
  - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
    No, if you collect money to pay for it it will be built. Or if the inventors themselves want the water and build it for themselves.
    - cblconfederate 5y ago
      If you don't recognize the problem i doubt you ll collect any money for it
      - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
        I didn't say anything about not recognizing problems.
        birdyrooster 5y ago
        You did because you stated there is no utility in communicating needs via complaint. I think you are digging a hole and instead of realizing how deep you have dug, you just keep going hoping to find yourself on the winning side of this silly semantic debate.
        kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
        I think the "complaint fraction" is digging the hole, not me. Maybe you could point out some inventors/innovators who were driven by complaints?
        teawrecks 5y ago
        You literally did.
        kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
        No I literally didn't. This is ridiculous.
    - philosopher1234 5y ago
      You have never in your life been motivated to help someone else with needs you didnt have?
      - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
- nfw2 5y ago
  A lot of (most?) innovation is driven by problems that need solving. It's a lot easier to start a company if there is already a large audience that really wants a problem solved and are willing to pay for the solution. Having an amazing novel idea and then convincing people not having it in their life is a problem is way harder
  - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
    Yes of course - problems, needs, not complaints.
    - nfw2 5y ago
      what is the difference? isn't a complaint essentially just stating that you have a problem
      - kazinator 5y ago
        "Complain" sometimes takes on the nuance of unproductive whining (repeatedly bringing up problems that others in the situation cannot fix), entitled attitude (why aren't things such and such: everyone around me should accommodate to me), excessive focus on minor things (I hate this whole situation that I can't change, and I can make that constantly known by harping on minor aspects) and such.
    - philosopher1234 5y ago
      complaining is talking about needs. i dont understand your distinction
- ignoramous 5y ago
  > No, technical progress is key part of progress. If nothing is rooted in people's / society's / community's / government's wants and needs, then what incentives are left for progress? > Most innovators are not driven by the constant complaints of other people. I think you may be conflating inventors with innovators. Inventors, like innovators, are a product of their time. The leaps and bounds come from invention. And invention follows necessity, as an old saying goes.
  - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
    I wasn't talking about needs, I was talking about complaints. Innovators/Inventors are driven by their needs, not by other people's complaints. Unless they need to stop their spouses complaining or something like that.
    - long_time_gone 5y ago
      >Innovators/Inventors are driven by their needs, not by other people's complaints. A need is the solution to a complaint, no?
    - birdyrooster 5y ago
      Complaints may be communicating needs, so if you remove complaint then you stop the flow of communication about needs.
      - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
        You can complain, all I said is that innovators are not driven by complaints. Not sure if people complained about horses a lot before the automobile came along.
        ignoramous 5y ago
        They sure did complain about slow transit. Of course, the key isn't listening to customer's solutions but to their problems, and then inventing on their behalf. This is what Amazon calls "customer obsession". Jeff Bezos on learned helplessness, innovation, making decisions with data and despite data (2005): https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/WhnDvvNS8zQ https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/WhnDvvNS8zQ
- teawrecks 5y ago
  So protesting is useless, and necessity is not the mother of invention?
  - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
    Protesting is mostly useless.

jimsimmons 5y ago

Than anytime in human history is such a dumb way to characterize it. I mean, do we really expect the world to go backwards? It has happened in the past for sure, but regressions have not been a thing in the modern world for quite a while. So “than anytime in human history” has, is and will likely be true and that makes the characterization pointless.

moffkalast 5y ago
Also "at least we're not in WW3, life is good!" is such a crap argument I can't even. A guy writes a blog post on important issues to focus on and what this guy comes up with is: "shut up, be happy".
- cactus2093 5y ago
  I think the author invited this though. Half the article is a well thought out discussion of important problems. There is some nuanced thinking about markets and capitalism that addressed both the pros and cons. But the article started and ended with completely unsupported claims about how the world is going to hell and "we all feel it". The commenter you're responding to merely pointed out that, no we don't all feel it, most people actually have things very good these days. And that doesn't mean there aren't still major issues that we should be working hard on.
encoderer 5y ago
Well, we are living through one right now. Empty shelves and stores that close early and restaurants out of business and schools that are hardly teaching our kids.

enraged_camel 5y ago

>> * Rich people are still rich and poor people have access to more food, medicine, and opportunity then any time in human history. Back in the day slaves had to transport ice from mountains so that the king could have his chilled wine every evening, whereas today most people in the West have fridges at home. This does not mean that those who have fridges should just put aside their feelings of malaise and adopt an optimistic outlook, because at the end of the day that malaise is a result of one's wealth and power relative to others who occupy the same time and space.

jspaetzel 5y ago
Sounds great, nobody should ever have anything nicer then anyone else. Please try to create that and get back with me about how it goes.
klabb3 5y ago
Yep, agreed. For instance, you have more bandwidth and CPU power today than in the 90s but the number of rent seekers you and walled gardens you have to use are much bigger. So the topology has changed.

neuronic 5y ago

Yea live is good on Earth with a massive climate catastrophe rolling in. But sure, the technocrats just believe some Silicon Valley tech is gonna fix it.

klabb3 5y ago

Before antibiotics, birth control and ICEs there was germ theory, virtuous celibacy and steam engines. Pointing out and analyzing issues in the world is part of innovation.

maerF0x0 5y ago

> Families have and always should lookout for themselves first. That's the way things work and should work. You're assuming this axiomatically, at first blush this is simply nepotism which is typically a term w/ negative connotations.

jspaetzel 5y ago
Most of the time "parents caring for children" is considered a good thing. It only is an issue when there's societal pressure to do otherwise, which is also a good thing.
AutumnCurtain 5y ago
It outright states meritocracy is wrong...

joe_the_user 5y ago

Some expectations are pessimistic, some are optimistic. Societies, over time, have gone up and gone down. So sometimes an optimistic perspective has proven right and sometimes a pessimistic perspective has proven right. The article has a decent argument why a pessimistic approach is plausible. Your examples don't anything particular specific and so they don't really give a case that an optimistic perspective is appropriate. I mean, optimism might appropriate but "change your view to see the good" is just kind of manipulative (something very common now, a reason for pessimism, sadly).