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This thread looks like it's being astro-turfed by supporters of Vinay Prasad and the nonsense he keeps peddling. There are plenty of studies showing that masks

This thread looks like it's being astro-turfed by supporters of Vinay Prasad and the nonsense he keeps peddling. There are plenty of studies showing that masks work and that they reduce transmission and spread and there are even studies that show that mask mandates have a drastic positive effect in limiting community transmission and spread.

timr 5y ago
"Astroturfed"...that's hilarious. I'm a real person. I've been on the site for years. I think for myself and read and interpret data. Big Vinay Prasad is not paying me to come here and spread the gospel of randomized controlled trials and rigorous science. If you disagree with the data, you're more than welcome to bring rigorous arguments to the debate, and not merely propaganda. > There are plenty of studies showing that masks work and that they reduce transmission and spread and there are even studies that show that mask mandates have a drastic positive effect in limiting community transmission and spread. And, as noted, the vast majority of those "studies" are terrible, and the good studies show the opposite. This is not a game of collecting "papers", and the side with the most papers wins. They're not monopoly money or science points. You have to read them and understand the details. A paper that uses biased or flawed methodology (i.e. most mask studies) is useless for drawing conclusions.
- dkonofalski 5y ago
  > I'm a real person Yeah. That's how astro-turfing works. > the vast majority of those "studies" are terrible, and the good studies show the opposite. Noted by someone who is a known charlatan that has been wrong on multiple occasions about even the most basic epidemiological ideas surrounding COVID. This statement alone is a perfect example of a "No True Scottsman" fallacy. Of course(!) all the studies that prove you wrong are terrible and only those that support your argument are great...
  - timr 5y ago
    OK. I can see we're not going to be able to have a serious conversation about this.
    - dkonofalski 5y ago
      Of course not, you're not arguing in good faith and immediately resort to logical fallacies to make your statements. How could we possibly?
  - tarboreus 5y ago
    Accusations of astroturfing are against policy on HN, for good reason, since they can never be refuted.
    - dkonofalski 5y ago
      OK. Then just refine my statement to say that the only responses making these claims are all coming from Vinay Prasad's site or providing links that are found and sourced on his site. The point is still the same.
harpersealtako 5y ago
I don't know who that is, the reason I'm skeptical is the sheer amount of cofounders in most observational studies. My pre-pandemic prior was slightly positive towards masking, strongly negative towards government mask mandates. My personal totally subjective risk estimates after reading a ton of studies and metanalyses is that n95 masks probably reduce transmission at least somewhat (90% confidence), surgical masks probably have a weak or negligible effect (50% confidence), and cloth masks probably don't work at all (50% confidence). I personally still wear a surgical mask while at work, at the hospital/doctor's office, and in crowded spaces I expect to be in for a long time such as the DMV, airplanes, trains. I don't wear a mask outdoors, in grocery stores and convenience stores, or when visiting family members. I am moderately against government-imposed mask mandates (both for science-based reasons and ideological reasons) though I do comply with them when they are imposed.
dang 5y ago
Breaking the site guidelines like this will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. Between this comment, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29419551 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29419551, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29423080 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29423080, and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29419708 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29419708, you went way over the line and well into bannable offense. You've also been posting flamewar comments elsewhere too. That's not gooo. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

timr 5y ago

"Astroturfed"...that's hilarious. I'm a real person. I've been on the site for years. I think for myself and read and interpret data. Big Vinay Prasad is not paying me to come here and spread the gospel of randomized controlled trials and rigorous science. If you disagree with the data, you're more than welcome to bring rigorous arguments to the debate, and not merely propaganda. > There are plenty of studies showing that masks work and that they reduce transmission and spread and there are even studies that show that mask mandates have a drastic positive effect in limiting community transmission and spread. And, as noted, the vast majority of those "studies" are terrible, and the good studies show the opposite. This is not a game of collecting "papers", and the side with the most papers wins. They're not monopoly money or science points. You have to read them and understand the details. A paper that uses biased or flawed methodology (i.e. most mask studies) is useless for drawing conclusions.

dkonofalski 5y ago
> I'm a real person Yeah. That's how astro-turfing works. > the vast majority of those "studies" are terrible, and the good studies show the opposite. Noted by someone who is a known charlatan that has been wrong on multiple occasions about even the most basic epidemiological ideas surrounding COVID. This statement alone is a perfect example of a "No True Scottsman" fallacy. Of course(!) all the studies that prove you wrong are terrible and only those that support your argument are great...
- timr 5y ago
  OK. I can see we're not going to be able to have a serious conversation about this.
  - dkonofalski 5y ago
    Of course not, you're not arguing in good faith and immediately resort to logical fallacies to make your statements. How could we possibly?
- tarboreus 5y ago
  Accusations of astroturfing are against policy on HN, for good reason, since they can never be refuted.
  - dkonofalski 5y ago
    OK. Then just refine my statement to say that the only responses making these claims are all coming from Vinay Prasad's site or providing links that are found and sourced on his site. The point is still the same.

harpersealtako 5y ago

I don't know who that is, the reason I'm skeptical is the sheer amount of cofounders in most observational studies. My pre-pandemic prior was slightly positive towards masking, strongly negative towards government mask mandates. My personal totally subjective risk estimates after reading a ton of studies and metanalyses is that n95 masks probably reduce transmission at least somewhat (90% confidence), surgical masks probably have a weak or negligible effect (50% confidence), and cloth masks probably don't work at all (50% confidence). I personally still wear a surgical mask while at work, at the hospital/doctor's office, and in crowded spaces I expect to be in for a long time such as the DMV, airplanes, trains. I don't wear a mask outdoors, in grocery stores and convenience stores, or when visiting family members. I am moderately against government-imposed mask mandates (both for science-based reasons and ideological reasons) though I do comply with them when they are imposed.

dang 5y ago

Breaking the site guidelines like this will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. Between this comment, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29419551 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29419551, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29423080 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29423080, and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29419708 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29419708, you went way over the line and well into bannable offense. You've also been posting flamewar comments elsewhere too. That's not gooo. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.