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I think Facebook (meta)‘s key asset is now WhatsApp. Facebook is practically dead. It’s just a stream of awful content that isn’t from your friends. It’s hyper

I think Facebook (meta)‘s key asset is now WhatsApp. Facebook is practically dead. It’s just a stream of awful content that isn’t from your friends. It’s hyper advertising and desperate attempts to clone other platforms as it slowly dies. It’ll continue for a long time, eventually becoming yahoo like, but young people do not care about it at all. Instagram has similarly been over monetised but in an earlier stage. It has been roundly defeated by TikTok, utterly destroyed by TikTok, in the battle for teens’ attention. Oculus was a great buy but the gap (in terms of years) between instagram’s peak and oculus really coming online is just too wide to “save” the company. In contrast, WhatsApp is still used across the generations. It’s the one platform where grandparents and grandkids are both active users. If I were Zuck then I’d focus on turning WhatsApp into an Asian-style chat platform with integrated services. That I can’t wire money on WhatsApp in the U.K. is I think a very very big strategic error on his part. It seems clear Facebook (meta) can’t build anything truly new, but they can certainly extend platforms - they should focus on WhatsApp. It has longevity, strong network effects, and huge potential. Just don’t use ads and destroy it. Otoh Facebook deserves to die so I hope he continues to think oculus will save them.

nicce 5y ago
While many are still using WhatsApp, it has taken significant reputation impact and users are dropping. Potential is only for the limited user group. It can be only changed by changing owner in general.
- randomsearch 5y ago
  2 Billion MAU https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_platforms_with_at_least_100_million_active_users https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_platforms_with_...
- dx034 5y ago
  From my experience (Europe), not that many users actually left it. Sure, many people constantly complain about privacy issues but only a few very tech-savy left for Signal. And even they cannot leave Whatsapp as it's the de-facto standard. I don't know a single person who has a mobile phone and isn't on Whatsapp at least once a month.
  - mad182 5y ago
    Same. I prefer Telegram, and a few of my closest friends also use it, so I use it the most, but even my contact list on WhatsApp is at least 5x longer.
    - nicce 5y ago
      The most of my family and friends have swapped to Telegram. Almost all local uni students as well.
ddalex 5y ago
The problem is that Whatsapp is a very non-US-oriented app - its is very popular in EU and Asia/Africa/Latin America, but none of my US friends use it other than to reach us outside of the US. Since it's not US-focused, the US execs (and boards, investors) tend to dismiss it. This explains why Whatsapp was left, relatively, untouched by FB in terms of user experience, after the acquisition - it's not shiny by any means for somebody in the valley, so no exec wants to hang that in their portofolio
- eloisius 5y ago
  Which countries in Asia still count it as the most popular messaging app? China is on WeeChat, Korea has KakaoTalk and LINE is everywhere else. It is pretty amazing that Meta had three messaging apps and none of them are close to something like LINE in terms of ubiquity or utility.
  - skydhash 5y ago
    Not Asia, but SMS is dead pretty much in Haiti, and everyone uses WhatsApp. Internet usage is low enough to even be an alternative to phone calls in most cases (especially for the young adults category).
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - fjT2HFkVZKb9msz 5y ago
    In Indonesia WhatsApp is #1.
  - yomly 5y ago
    My understanding is that WhatsApp is pretty big in India and my experience is that WeChat is pretty ubiquitous within SE Asia. The Singapore govt uses WhatsApp now for much of its govt comms and a lot of small business uses WhatsApp. Also recently in the news, you can book an Uber via WhatsApp . I'd be curious how WhatsApp does in Japan and South Korea. Also my hunch is that Aus and NZ use WhatsApp heavily too
k_bx 5y ago
Ukraine is of course no major market for Facebook, but it's a good example that doesn't match what you describe at all. In Ukraine, Facebook is the place where you follow top journalists, anti-corruption people, activists, and other public figures. It's basically an extremely valuable addition to the media, where anyone can be lifted in popularity in a matter of hours if their content is truly important. Facebook has been an invaluable tool during the Maidan revolution in 2014 combining its social and video-streaming capabilities. It works in times where media is breaking down, being bought by oligarchs, and isn't to be relied upon. I don't see any alternative that would replace it, in terms of being social, everyone being present on it, and allowing long text+image+video content to be posted and spread easily.
- theshrike79 5y ago
  The rest of the world seems to use Twitter for this. Despite all its faults it seems to be better for this kind of stuff. Facebook's algorithms limit the way posts can be found way too much.
  - yunohn 5y ago
    > The rest of the world seems to use Twitter I truly don’t think so. The vast majority of people I know in Europe and Asia use Facebook, not Twitter. Only my USA acquaintances use Twitter all the time.
    - lentil_soup 5y ago
      I think they meant the following of journalists during troubled times
  - shmel 5y ago
    Twitter literally limits the length of your tweets. What can you say in a couple of phrases in the context of activism and politics? Just link another platform? Don't get me started on twitter threads, this is abomination. My patience usually runs out after the third tweet in a thread. Another day Twitter CEO resigned and he posted a screenshot of his mail. Why couldn't he post it in a proper text format so people can reflow text and read it on different screens? Because Twitter sucks.
MaXtreeM 5y ago
I would agree that Facebook is practically dead but Instagram defeated by TikTok? In very young teens' maybe, that is not really my social bubble but Instagram is far more prevalent everywhere else. Speaking as a someone from Central Europe.
jakub_g 5y ago
> It’s just a stream of awful content that isn’t from your friends. 100% this. So much "promoted" content (aka ads), or "suggested for you" viral content, or people I know promoting their businesses / blogs etc. Barely anything real posted anymore by real people.
edpichler 5y ago
This is just your perception/opinion (I have a similar one). The company Financial Results and statements (facts) are showing something different. PS: They are awful for me. I miss the old Internet days.
- randomsearch 5y ago
  I’m referring to where the puck. Plenty of cash left in the Facebook cow, but its decline is terminal.
raxxorrax 5y ago
I doubt teenager me would not have been happy to share a social media presence with my parents aside for superficial content. So every few generations we might gain another platform regardless of its quality. I assume that Tiktok will fall as well, I hear the first people calling it boring.

nicce 5y ago

While many are still using WhatsApp, it has taken significant reputation impact and users are dropping. Potential is only for the limited user group. It can be only changed by changing owner in general.

randomsearch 5y ago
2 Billion MAU https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_platforms_with_at_least_100_million_active_users https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_platforms_with_...
dx034 5y ago
From my experience (Europe), not that many users actually left it. Sure, many people constantly complain about privacy issues but only a few very tech-savy left for Signal. And even they cannot leave Whatsapp as it's the de-facto standard. I don't know a single person who has a mobile phone and isn't on Whatsapp at least once a month.
- mad182 5y ago
  Same. I prefer Telegram, and a few of my closest friends also use it, so I use it the most, but even my contact list on WhatsApp is at least 5x longer.
  - nicce 5y ago
    The most of my family and friends have swapped to Telegram. Almost all local uni students as well.

ddalex 5y ago

The problem is that Whatsapp is a very non-US-oriented app - its is very popular in EU and Asia/Africa/Latin America, but none of my US friends use it other than to reach us outside of the US. Since it's not US-focused, the US execs (and boards, investors) tend to dismiss it. This explains why Whatsapp was left, relatively, untouched by FB in terms of user experience, after the acquisition - it's not shiny by any means for somebody in the valley, so no exec wants to hang that in their portofolio

eloisius 5y ago
Which countries in Asia still count it as the most popular messaging app? China is on WeeChat, Korea has KakaoTalk and LINE is everywhere else. It is pretty amazing that Meta had three messaging apps and none of them are close to something like LINE in terms of ubiquity or utility.
- skydhash 5y ago
  Not Asia, but SMS is dead pretty much in Haiti, and everyone uses WhatsApp. Internet usage is low enough to even be an alternative to phone calls in most cases (especially for the young adults category).
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- fjT2HFkVZKb9msz 5y ago
  In Indonesia WhatsApp is #1.
- yomly 5y ago
  My understanding is that WhatsApp is pretty big in India and my experience is that WeChat is pretty ubiquitous within SE Asia. The Singapore govt uses WhatsApp now for much of its govt comms and a lot of small business uses WhatsApp. Also recently in the news, you can book an Uber via WhatsApp . I'd be curious how WhatsApp does in Japan and South Korea. Also my hunch is that Aus and NZ use WhatsApp heavily too

k_bx 5y ago

Ukraine is of course no major market for Facebook, but it's a good example that doesn't match what you describe at all. In Ukraine, Facebook is the place where you follow top journalists, anti-corruption people, activists, and other public figures. It's basically an extremely valuable addition to the media, where anyone can be lifted in popularity in a matter of hours if their content is truly important. Facebook has been an invaluable tool during the Maidan revolution in 2014 combining its social and video-streaming capabilities. It works in times where media is breaking down, being bought by oligarchs, and isn't to be relied upon. I don't see any alternative that would replace it, in terms of being social, everyone being present on it, and allowing long text+image+video content to be posted and spread easily.

theshrike79 5y ago
The rest of the world seems to use Twitter for this. Despite all its faults it seems to be better for this kind of stuff. Facebook's algorithms limit the way posts can be found way too much.
- yunohn 5y ago
  > The rest of the world seems to use Twitter I truly don’t think so. The vast majority of people I know in Europe and Asia use Facebook, not Twitter. Only my USA acquaintances use Twitter all the time.
  - lentil_soup 5y ago
    I think they meant the following of journalists during troubled times
- shmel 5y ago
  Twitter literally limits the length of your tweets. What can you say in a couple of phrases in the context of activism and politics? Just link another platform? Don't get me started on twitter threads, this is abomination. My patience usually runs out after the third tweet in a thread. Another day Twitter CEO resigned and he posted a screenshot of his mail. Why couldn't he post it in a proper text format so people can reflow text and read it on different screens? Because Twitter sucks.

MaXtreeM 5y ago

I would agree that Facebook is practically dead but Instagram defeated by TikTok? In very young teens' maybe, that is not really my social bubble but Instagram is far more prevalent everywhere else. Speaking as a someone from Central Europe.

jakub_g 5y ago

> It’s just a stream of awful content that isn’t from your friends. 100% this. So much "promoted" content (aka ads), or "suggested for you" viral content, or people I know promoting their businesses / blogs etc. Barely anything real posted anymore by real people.

edpichler 5y ago

This is just your perception/opinion (I have a similar one). The company Financial Results and statements (facts) are showing something different. PS: They are awful for me. I miss the old Internet days.

randomsearch 5y ago
I’m referring to where the puck. Plenty of cash left in the Facebook cow, but its decline is terminal.

raxxorrax 5y ago

I doubt teenager me would not have been happy to share a social media presence with my parents aside for superficial content. So every few generations we might gain another platform regardless of its quality. I assume that Tiktok will fall as well, I hear the first people calling it boring.