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> Maybe legitimising Bitcoin was hijacked by cryptobros later on to push their own narrative, but the people who originally got into Bitcoin simply wanted to be

• tata71 5y ago
  Then why aren't the majority of the miners or large wallets selling at all-time highs?
  • divs1210 5y ago
    I used to hold similar views before life-changing events that now have me firmly on the side of BTC and crypto in general. You can't convince them - in their mind, you are part of the "scam", and hence not trustworthy. No point in debating, they will buy in when it clicks for them.
    • suriyaG 5y ago
      I'd love to hear the life-changing events, if possible. Because I've been trying to convince myself that BTC might be good. But I really couldn't find a reason. The "pump and dump" thing is the one that makes most sense right now. I'm open to contrarian ideas.
      • stann 5y ago
        Some things are a little more appealing when you are in a country without a competent Federal Reserve
        • tablespoon 5y ago
          > Some things are a little more appealing when you are in a country without a competent Federal Reserve Why bother with Bitcoin, when you can just use money from a country with a competent Federal Reserve? IIRC many countries have "dollarized" (either de jure or de facto).
          • bradwood 5y ago
            Simple: there is no country with a competent Federal Reserve (Central Bank)
            • tablespoon 5y ago
              > Simple: there is no country with a competent Federal Reserve (Central Bank) Eh, that's pretty obviously untrue under any reasonable definition of "competent Federal Reserve." Now, there are definitely unreasonable an/or extreme ideological definitions under which you could make such a statement (e.g. the most reasonable of these are monomanically overoptimizing to one metric), but those definitions are irrelevant and can be ignored.
              • bradwood 5y ago
                > Eh, that's pretty obviously untrue under any reasonable definition of "competent Federal Reserve" It's not obvious. Is any central bank that debases currency through money printing without some kind of fixed peg/ratio to a scarce asset competent? No. This is self-evidently true as, by doing so, they are perniciously taxing the savings of the poor in order to feather the nests of the (asset-)rich. There is no avoiding the truth of this inviolable fact as Cantillion himself described many years ago.
                • tablespoon 5y ago
                  > Is any central bank that debases currency through money printing without some kind of fixed peg/ratio to a scarce asset competent? You're... >> monomanically overoptimizing to one metric As long as they do the debasing competently, as in the currency is able to sustain a healthy economy, then they're a competent central bank. Bitcoin could never sustain a healthy economy, for instance, because it strongly promotes hoarding and speculation.
      • divs1210 5y ago
        Like I said, I don't try to convince people to buy Bitcoin, because I remember how I used to respond to people talking about it. I would mock them, call it a ponzi scheme, call them shills, etc. I think Satoshi did it right. He said - > If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry. He said this when Bitoin was still extremely niche and inexpensive. But because you asked, I'm going to tell you what the personal event taught me - people are irrational. Watch "Gods Must be Crazy" and try to understand the allegory of the bottle and what effect it has on the tribe. That's what Bitcoin has achieved in cyberspace.
        • dmitriid 5y ago
          Full on cultist talk. Including "irrefutable" quotes from the founder of the cult. Allegories. "Personal events that changed my life".
          • MrMan 5y ago
            I think those events probably had something to do with getting rich
        • imtringued 5y ago
          The fact that nobody adopted Freicoin is a sign that there is nothing of substance in the cryptocurrency space. Freicoin is Bitcoin without the speculation. Freicoin can only be used as a medium of exchange. It's far more likely that in 50 years we will see negative interest rates on cash and thereby complete abolishment of the business cycle, involuntary unemployment and growth dependence than a move back to a currency designed to maintain dynasties.
        • raydev 5y ago
          That's a lot of words to avoid answering the question.
    • arcticbull 5y ago
      > No point in debating, they will buy in when it clicks for them. Sounds like Herbalife to me.
      • throwaway248329 5y ago
        The only way WikiLeaks could accept donations when they were cut off from traditional finance. Yup, sounds like Herbalife.
    • imtringued 5y ago
      >No point in debating, they will buy in when it clicks for them. Yeah, it didn't take long for the aristocracy to click that owning land and passing it onto their heirs for all eternity is good for humanity and the landless peasants are just jealous that they can't abuse their own landless peasants.
      • throwaway248329 5y ago
        Bitcoin is the most egalitarian money ever created. Nobody will ever refuse to sell you Bitcoin because you're a "peasant". And comparing money with land is also incorrect - having Bitcoins in a wallet that you're never going to spend is as useful as having no Bitcoins at all. Unlike land, where you can live, extract resources, grow food, etc.
  • californical 5y ago
    The “greater fool” effect — most of them think the price will continue to rise so they’ll be able to sell it later and make even more money. It has little to do with a bunch of people suddenly believing that Bitcoin has intrinsic value
    • throwaway248329 5y ago
      So, like gold or any other speculative investment?
  • arcticbull 5y ago
    Miners have discovered that by going public they can simply sell shares in their Bitcoin without selling it, making them yet another degenerate ETF. DeFi lending has opened an avenue for old wallets to obtain liquidity without selling. This side-steps both the liquidity issues in BTC and also negative price pressure.
• kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
  It's a technology, and open source. You could say it is literally the opposite of a scam. Alternatively, you could say everything is a scam. For example the USA is a scam. It only exists because people play along and collectively decide it exists. At most you could argue that tanks would come and force people to play along if they stopped. So is that perhaps your threshold for something not being a scam? What is the minimum number of tanks that stand ready to enforce an idea, to make you call it "not a scam anymore"?
  • BoorishBears 5y ago
    I'm sorry but if the US dollar was deflated at the rate Bitcoin has no one would continue to play along. These kinds of arguments held water when BTC doubled after two years or something, not anymore.
    • kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
      Clearly people are playing along with Bitcoin, so I don't see your point? I also don't fully understand what you are saying. You mean if dollar would gain in value as fast as Bitcoin, people would stop using dollars?
      • BoorishBears 5y ago
        > You mean if dollar would gain in value as fast as Bitcoin, people would stop using dollars? Yes, did you not realize that?! Are you really rallying this hard against people discarding its economic value without understanding something as basic as deflation? - Deflation is more deadly to a currency than inflation. By far. You reduce interest rates to 0% and then what? You can try negative interest rates, but with the kind of deflation BTC has seen you would need negative triple digit interest rates which is a complete absurdity. You'd probably see the government outlaw physical cash to boot, forcing you to use a bank and forcing the bank to constantly siphon your money if you don't spend it quickly enough. It would be a literal hellscape.
        • 5y ago
• imtringued 5y ago
  It's not a scam. It's a parody of the USD back when it was on the gold standard. Why is a fixed supply a bad idea for a day to day currency? Just look at Bitcoin. A currency is effectively a public good, it's needed to facilitate trade. People sell stuff for currency and this creates a chain of transactions. If someone saves money beyond what they intend to spend, it's like damming a river. There are less transactions on the other side, in extreme cases no transactions may happen, which means an infinite chain of transactions has been interrupted. If the owner of the dam periodically releases the water (spends the money) then people downstream don't mind it. However, the dam owner may abuse his power and charge these people for the privilege of not having their water drained. (real interest) People get indebted to the dam owner but at least the infinite chain of transactions is no longer interrupted. However, there is a problem with this. The dam owner makes it harder to make a living. Everyone starts building their own dam because it is more profitable than working. Suddenly, there are droughts everywhere even though there is no lack of water in the dams. That's how you get a 30s style depression. It's like panic buying money instead of toilet paper. All these Bitcoin investors are panic buying into it, for whatever (possibly valid) reason. When you think about it, a fixed supply currency is meant to be exclusive for elites that don't want to give up their power. In my opinion we might be in a mini depression (Japan and euro area) since 2008 or maybe even 2001. Our money systems are more flexible than a gold standard, however, pessimistic outlooks prevent banks from lending to small businesses. So you get a lopsided recovery at the top income spectrum where the rich are highly credit worthy and get their shoes kissed by the banks, meanwhile the average person still gets up to 10% interest for a small $10k loan.
  • throwaway248329 5y ago
    >People sell stuff for currency and this creates a chain of transactions. If someone saves money beyond what they intend to spend, it's like damming a river. There are less transactions on the other side, in extreme cases no transactions may happen Please explain how does me not spending money stops others from spending theirs?
    • MrMan 5y ago
      if everyone doesn't spend any money, and incentives encourage hoarding treasure instead of productive work, this is a bad outcome in the aggregate