10 ms·

I would like $100k to work on the Collatz conjecture for 6 months. I have an idea that will probably fail, but if I had that money I would quit my job work my

I would like $100k to work on the Collatz conjecture for 6 months. I have an idea that will probably fail, but if I had that money I would quit my job work my ass off for six months to flesh it out. But I have no credentials, no way to write a grant proposal, and even I wouldn't invest in myself. ....and yet if we did this sort of experiment 10000 times over, humanity might make some big breakthroughs because some of this people would be legitimately smart (unlike me). of course 10000 x one billion dollars, so maybe we should just fund legit grant seeking PhDs.

bsedlm 5y ago
sounds a lot like what VCs are already doing, except they're interested in business, not big breakthroughs
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- varelse 5y ago
  As someone just barely past past the affluence event horizon, VCs are now actively courting me to lead startups to develop their ideas or to invest in their funds. Previously, they just dismissed me as hella smart but clearly not leadership material (apparently net worth is an equivalent virtue signal to academic pedigree, who knew?). I am instead investing in myself and building skills orthogonal to what got me here so as to push senility off into the far off future. I like the concept here in principle. But I would love to see it expand to also attracting tribes both in terms of time and money to build concepts. These days, I tell startups that want my money that it is off the table, but I offer my time and opinions in exchange for free dinners. It's up to them whether they consider that a good deal or not. Or it's easy to get money if you're willing to search for someone who's already pursuing something similar and you just need to express your concept as if it is their concept. What's hard is finding people who can execute all the way to production. Thank you for attending my TED Talk(tm).
  - _jal 5y ago
    I've had a similar experience. It is kinda satisfying to tell those folks thanks, but you simply don't have time for their call. Valley VCs shop for very particular people, and behaviorally, are perfectly fine ignoring good ideas if the body in front of them (when young) didn't go to Stanford or (when older) doesn't care about some of the same things. Just ignore them, they're increasingly unnecessary.
kenferry 5y ago
Maybe I’m misreading, but it SEEMS like this site is reverse kickstarter: I would like to FUND people to work on the Collatz conjecture, please apply.
- koheripbal 5y ago
  The site isn't active yet
ok_dad 5y ago
For something like this, if you have a good idea, why not explain it and make the idea public so someone with more time can research it? You'll only lose the chance to make a big name for yourself, and if it pans out you'll still get some credit, and the human race will have advanced in knowledge. It's not like you're giving away a possible formula to nuclear fusion. What's the downside I'm not seeing?
- koheripbal 5y ago
  I have tried that, but people online don't really have an open mind. I'll tell you right now... I feel like there is a way to model the 3n+1 system of equations (or really any such generalized system) using Godel numbering as a representation of each operation, as a prime number based programming language of nature, and then try to glean something from the output primes to see if there is something that predicts the single 4->2->1 outcome we always see. e.g. if it is a certain form of Fermat prime or something. It would require me to put my computers to work because these numbers get very big, but the real limitation is my time because I have three kids and cannot afford to quit my job.
  - physicsgraph 5y ago
    I'm not sure I follow what you're proposing, but in case it is tangentially related to a project I work on, I'll describe what I did. Write down every quantitative expression in Mathematical Physics. Assign a unique numerical ID to each expression. Identify the relations between each of the expressions to create a graph. Does that graph feature any patterns? Is there a path from any expression to every other expression?
    - koheripbal 5y ago
      Rather than a numeric ID, the variables as well as the operations are represented by primes, as Godel described. The resulting number's geometric properties might provide some insight into the properties of the original system. The trick is figuring out which primes to use initially, and how to interpret the resulting number. ....but my gut tells me there is something there.
barrenko 5y ago
I'll send you 10 bucks. I really believe Naval x Joe Rogan outlined the whole future of work, together with the movie "Her".
yosito 5y ago
> I would like $100k to work on the Collatz conjecture for 6 months > I have no credentials Then why would you need $100k to work on mathematics?
- koheripbal 5y ago
  I'm saying I have no formal credentials in Math specifically, not no professional credentials in any field. 100k for six months would be a pay cut for me, but maybe you're right... Maybe I'm being greedy at the opportunity to make a real contribution. At the end of the day I still need to feed/house a family of five so the 100k is still ballpark, but maybe I can set aside a few more than 6 months. 10? Not that it matters because who would fund someone with no formal credentials in Math? Even I wouldn't fund me.
  - quickthrower2 5y ago
    This is the problem of lifestyle creep. I have the same problem too, though I earn less than that. If everyone could live off next to nothing maybe we’d all have time to solve stuff sans-grants. Sadly if you decide to have a family in an expensive COL then you are kinda out of the race for bang-for-buck grants unless you are genius level talented.
    - yosito 5y ago
      > If everyone could live off next to nothing maybe we’d all have time to solve stuff sans-grants. I think this is, theoretically, one of the promises of communism. When I was in Cuba, I went to a local theater production of Don Quixote. It was free, and no one got any money from it, yet it was professional-level quality. In good times at least, under comminism, people have the freedom to explore their passions, because the state takes care of all their essential needs. Sadly, communism rarely leads to good times, and I can tell you for certian that none of my Cuban friends would say that the state adequately provides for their needs most of the time. It's a nice idea, at least.
  - nathancahill 5y ago
    > Even I wouldn't fund me. I mean, that's the heart of it right there. You're netting $200k+ but you wouldn't set aside six months expenses and take a sabbatical to work on your idea. So why would someone else?
robotresearcher 5y ago
> maybe we should just fund legit grant seeking PhDs. We already do, through the NSF, DARPA, DOJ, NSA, NASA, etc.
- q1w2 5y ago
  Parent commenter doesn't seem like he'd qualify for any of those since he has no math credentials. To be honest, it's a tough question. He's clearly a successful senior IT professional (assuming everything he said is true), and so he's probably intelligent. Even if we assume he's mature enough to stay well focused for that period and work hard, it's sort of a toss-up as to whether it's worth us funding it over another candidate. Then again, there is no other platform like this, so if I had the option between contributing $50 to this person vs doing nothing - I'd rather give $50 to him on the off-chance that he solves (or materially advances) the Collatz Conjecture. ...but also, this speaks to a dysfunction in the Math community, in general. There should be a more constructive online forum for people like him to participate in.
burntoutfire 5y ago
Unfortunately, availability of money for an speculative work results in emergence of entire industry of scammers, whose only competence is getting grants to do that speculative work. For example, various European Union programmes are overtaken by such people. Also, this is the reason why VCs, after funding a startup, generallly prefer to be breathing down the CEO's neck (instead of a hands-off approach) - they know that the temptation do just burn through someone else's money while doing a half-assed attempt is too strong for many. In other words, people in general are took weak morally for your idea to produce good results.
- ok_dad 5y ago
  My wife says a similar thing, and I agree that it's a hard problem to solve to prevent all that cash going to someone who will just play video games for the length of the grant. I guess you still need some signal that a person will work somewhat diligently on the grant work. I still think that it's important to fund that sort of work because there are so many examples of famous mathematicians in history who were just bored rich folks, or folks who had a benefactor and an idea, or maybe just a poor hermit from nowhere.
  - burntoutfire 5y ago
    Well, we were getting pretty nice results pre-XX century, before any of the taxpayers' money got (forcibly) involved. Why not just continue relying on that proven model (i.e. the rich bored folks, the benefactors and the crazy hermits)? Esp. in math, where there's no need for any equipment or materials, it seemed to work well.
    - ok_dad 5y ago
      I can see that, but I don't want to get into the implications for taxes and such, that's a polarizing topic. Wherever it comes from, it's necessary to support people with good ideas (and even some bad ones).

bsedlm 5y ago

sounds a lot like what VCs are already doing, except they're interested in business, not big breakthroughs

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
varelse 5y ago
As someone just barely past past the affluence event horizon, VCs are now actively courting me to lead startups to develop their ideas or to invest in their funds. Previously, they just dismissed me as hella smart but clearly not leadership material (apparently net worth is an equivalent virtue signal to academic pedigree, who knew?). I am instead investing in myself and building skills orthogonal to what got me here so as to push senility off into the far off future. I like the concept here in principle. But I would love to see it expand to also attracting tribes both in terms of time and money to build concepts. These days, I tell startups that want my money that it is off the table, but I offer my time and opinions in exchange for free dinners. It's up to them whether they consider that a good deal or not. Or it's easy to get money if you're willing to search for someone who's already pursuing something similar and you just need to express your concept as if it is their concept. What's hard is finding people who can execute all the way to production. Thank you for attending my TED Talk(tm).
- _jal 5y ago
  I've had a similar experience. It is kinda satisfying to tell those folks thanks, but you simply don't have time for their call. Valley VCs shop for very particular people, and behaviorally, are perfectly fine ignoring good ideas if the body in front of them (when young) didn't go to Stanford or (when older) doesn't care about some of the same things. Just ignore them, they're increasingly unnecessary.

kenferry 5y ago

Maybe I’m misreading, but it SEEMS like this site is reverse kickstarter: I would like to FUND people to work on the Collatz conjecture, please apply.

koheripbal 5y ago
The site isn't active yet

ok_dad 5y ago

For something like this, if you have a good idea, why not explain it and make the idea public so someone with more time can research it? You'll only lose the chance to make a big name for yourself, and if it pans out you'll still get some credit, and the human race will have advanced in knowledge. It's not like you're giving away a possible formula to nuclear fusion. What's the downside I'm not seeing?

koheripbal 5y ago
I have tried that, but people online don't really have an open mind. I'll tell you right now... I feel like there is a way to model the 3n+1 system of equations (or really any such generalized system) using Godel numbering as a representation of each operation, as a prime number based programming language of nature, and then try to glean something from the output primes to see if there is something that predicts the single 4->2->1 outcome we always see. e.g. if it is a certain form of Fermat prime or something. It would require me to put my computers to work because these numbers get very big, but the real limitation is my time because I have three kids and cannot afford to quit my job.
- physicsgraph 5y ago
  I'm not sure I follow what you're proposing, but in case it is tangentially related to a project I work on, I'll describe what I did. Write down every quantitative expression in Mathematical Physics. Assign a unique numerical ID to each expression. Identify the relations between each of the expressions to create a graph. Does that graph feature any patterns? Is there a path from any expression to every other expression?
  - koheripbal 5y ago
    Rather than a numeric ID, the variables as well as the operations are represented by primes, as Godel described. The resulting number's geometric properties might provide some insight into the properties of the original system. The trick is figuring out which primes to use initially, and how to interpret the resulting number. ....but my gut tells me there is something there.

barrenko 5y ago

I'll send you 10 bucks. I really believe Naval x Joe Rogan outlined the whole future of work, together with the movie "Her".

yosito 5y ago

> I would like $100k to work on the Collatz conjecture for 6 months > I have no credentials Then why would you need $100k to work on mathematics?

koheripbal 5y ago
I'm saying I have no formal credentials in Math specifically, not no professional credentials in any field. 100k for six months would be a pay cut for me, but maybe you're right... Maybe I'm being greedy at the opportunity to make a real contribution. At the end of the day I still need to feed/house a family of five so the 100k is still ballpark, but maybe I can set aside a few more than 6 months. 10? Not that it matters because who would fund someone with no formal credentials in Math? Even I wouldn't fund me.
- quickthrower2 5y ago
  This is the problem of lifestyle creep. I have the same problem too, though I earn less than that. If everyone could live off next to nothing maybe we’d all have time to solve stuff sans-grants. Sadly if you decide to have a family in an expensive COL then you are kinda out of the race for bang-for-buck grants unless you are genius level talented.
  - yosito 5y ago
    > If everyone could live off next to nothing maybe we’d all have time to solve stuff sans-grants. I think this is, theoretically, one of the promises of communism. When I was in Cuba, I went to a local theater production of Don Quixote. It was free, and no one got any money from it, yet it was professional-level quality. In good times at least, under comminism, people have the freedom to explore their passions, because the state takes care of all their essential needs. Sadly, communism rarely leads to good times, and I can tell you for certian that none of my Cuban friends would say that the state adequately provides for their needs most of the time. It's a nice idea, at least.
- nathancahill 5y ago
  > Even I wouldn't fund me. I mean, that's the heart of it right there. You're netting $200k+ but you wouldn't set aside six months expenses and take a sabbatical to work on your idea. So why would someone else?

robotresearcher 5y ago

> maybe we should just fund legit grant seeking PhDs. We already do, through the NSF, DARPA, DOJ, NSA, NASA, etc.

q1w2 5y ago
Parent commenter doesn't seem like he'd qualify for any of those since he has no math credentials. To be honest, it's a tough question. He's clearly a successful senior IT professional (assuming everything he said is true), and so he's probably intelligent. Even if we assume he's mature enough to stay well focused for that period and work hard, it's sort of a toss-up as to whether it's worth us funding it over another candidate. Then again, there is no other platform like this, so if I had the option between contributing $50 to this person vs doing nothing - I'd rather give $50 to him on the off-chance that he solves (or materially advances) the Collatz Conjecture. ...but also, this speaks to a dysfunction in the Math community, in general. There should be a more constructive online forum for people like him to participate in.

burntoutfire 5y ago

Unfortunately, availability of money for an speculative work results in emergence of entire industry of scammers, whose only competence is getting grants to do that speculative work. For example, various European Union programmes are overtaken by such people. Also, this is the reason why VCs, after funding a startup, generallly prefer to be breathing down the CEO's neck (instead of a hands-off approach) - they know that the temptation do just burn through someone else's money while doing a half-assed attempt is too strong for many. In other words, people in general are took weak morally for your idea to produce good results.

ok_dad 5y ago
My wife says a similar thing, and I agree that it's a hard problem to solve to prevent all that cash going to someone who will just play video games for the length of the grant. I guess you still need some signal that a person will work somewhat diligently on the grant work. I still think that it's important to fund that sort of work because there are so many examples of famous mathematicians in history who were just bored rich folks, or folks who had a benefactor and an idea, or maybe just a poor hermit from nowhere.
- burntoutfire 5y ago
  Well, we were getting pretty nice results pre-XX century, before any of the taxpayers' money got (forcibly) involved. Why not just continue relying on that proven model (i.e. the rich bored folks, the benefactors and the crazy hermits)? Esp. in math, where there's no need for any equipment or materials, it seemed to work well.
  - ok_dad 5y ago
    I can see that, but I don't want to get into the implications for taxes and such, that's a polarizing topic. Wherever it comes from, it's necessary to support people with good ideas (and even some bad ones).